The Black Experience at Grinnell College Through Collected Oral History and Documents, 1863–1954

Note: The questionaire mentioned in this response can be viewed by opening this link in a new window.

Leiana Thomas Gary: First of all‚ I'll identify myself again. My name is Leiana Thomas Gary. It was Leiana Thomas when you first corresponded with me‚ but I've gotten married since then‚ so my last name is now Gary. I'll answer your questions as you have them listed on this form.

Gary: Number 1: My parents' occupation and educational background. Both of my parents are college educated. My father is a print shop teacher at a school out in the Southern suburbs of Chicago‚ my mother holds a Master's degree in Urban Studies--had to think about that for a few minutes. She is presently--well‚ she was the director of job management and training at Chicago State University and also Dawson Skills Center‚ which is a part of City Colleges of Chicago. She is‚ at this time‚ in Africa. I'm assuming she will be over there for two or more or maybe more than that years. She is right now a teacher of adult education over there.

My home town environment: I was born and raised in Chicago‚ Illinois in‚ I guess what would be called a lower middle-class neighborhood‚ that was very‚ very segregated.

Nature of high school: My high school was all black‚ except for maybe one or two whites‚ but I think we had got so used to seeing them that we really didn't even consider them white. And‚ to be truthful‚ I don't even think they considered themselves white.

My religious affiliation is Baptist at this point in time. I was Baptized as a Baptist two years ago. Up until that point‚ I was Congregational-whatever that means. I never really did find out what that was supposed to mean.

My mother's political affiliation is Democratic. My father-because my parents are divorced‚ I have no idea what his political affiliations are.

Question number 2: How did I choose Grinnell? Well‚ I was in my last year of high school‚ and I really didn't know where I wanted to go. I knew I did not want to go to the university that my mother had been forcing upon me for years and years‚ which is the university that she and my father went to‚ which is Lincoln University in Jefferson City‚ Missouri. I just happened to be in the library one day doing nothing--which is what I usually did in the highschool library--and I saw a pamphlet on Grinnell. It sounded very interesting. I applied to Grinnell along with‚ I think‚ three other colleges‚ and my thing was then‚ whichever place gave me any money‚ that's where I was going to go. At that time‚ financial aid was a lot easier to get‚then it is at the present time. Anyway‚ I received a scholarship from Grinnell that made it a lot easier for my mother to send me to school. My friends' reactions were‚ first of all “Are you crazy?“ when they found out where it was they said “Iowa! Oh‚ my God‚ you“ve gone out of your mind!“ And I really-I didn't even think about Iowa. I guess my main thing was “Well‚ heck‚ I've got some money‚ so I'm going wherever it is‚“ My mother was really happy in that she was the one that was paying for it‚ so the scholarship really had a lot to do with her liking it‚ She thought that‚ it being a private school‚ would be very very good for me in that I would do a lot better there than she thought I would at a state university‚ My father‚ like I say‚ he's not been around very much‚ so we won't even mention him anymore.

Question Number 3: Were you actively recruited? No‚ I was not actively recruited by the College. As a matter of fact‚ I never even heard of the College until I saw that pamphlet in the library.

Number 4: What personal/occupation goals did you set for yourself once arriving? Well‚ to be honest‚ the first personal goal I set for myself was to really try and study. My grades were not really that bad in high school‚ but I always knew that I could have done better than I did. So I think that was my first personal goal. My second personal goal was not to let this place drive me crazy. Because once I got down there‚ coming from Chicago and the environment that I was used to‚ the first two weeks I just knew I wasn't going to make it. I just knew it‚ About the third week I started thinking “Well‚ I've gotten myself down here‚ I'm going to have to make the best of it.“ I think that was my second goal. My first occupational goal was really my only occupational goal at the time--was to pursue a degree in Journalism which I was very‚ very excited about. My mother had always said “You write very well. You can do this‚ You'll be a crack Journalist‚“ Blah‚ blah‚ blah. So that's what I was going into.

Number 5: What were your primary concerns? I would have to say initially social‚ And I say that because once I got down there and I realized how few black students were down there along with myself‚ the class that I was in there were only ten of us coming in as fresh.men that year‚ and I was really concerned-“Will I lose my identity here‚ or what?“ You know‚ I really think social was my concern first. Academically‚ my main concern was “Oh‚ my goodness‚ am I going to make it here?“ I worked harder in the first month of being up at Grinnell in my classes and in course work than I had ever done anywhere for anyone. And I :found myself constantly thinking to myself‚ “I've got to achieve‚ I've got to achieve‚ because I know that the environment that I came from did not truly prepare me for all of this‚“ which it did not. Politically‚ I was not really involved at all at that time. I really was not involved at all at that time. I think my-sad to say‚ I think my only political thoughts at that time were about whether The Temptations were Democratic--so I don't think that's very worth noting.

Number 6: Yes‚ it was very difficult to adjust to Grinnell's rural setting. I remember when my mother was driving me down to Grinnell ewe really got into Iowa all I saw was corn. I went to sleep and wake up and still wake up to cornfields and I began to think “Well God‚ is this all there is to it?“ So‚ anyway‚ we got up to Grinnell‚ and my mother stayed in some little guest house-I've forgotten the name of it now‚ and I went on to my dorm. My roommate was a classmate from my high school‚ so there was somebody there that I was very familiar with and that helped somewhat. But the first day I was there‚ I went up to my dorm room‚ arid I was on my way out‚ and I pushed the d0or open‚ and the first thing I saw was a cow. I have never been that close to a cow‚ ever in my life before‚ nor have I been since‚ and it scared me so badly that I ran right back up to my room and I stayed there for three days. It was difficult‚ it was very difficult. I guess it took me about three months to really get myself together.

In answer to question number 7: I was very lonely initially in that it took a little time for all of us in the new class of black freshmen to warm up to each other. It took quite a little while. I really-I thought about that‚ and I'm not really sure what took so long‚ it just may have been me. I was homesick‚ I kept thinking “Oh‚ my God‚ if I was in Chicago I could be doing this‚ I could be doing that‚“ I was constantly comparing the two places. But like I say‚ within three months‚ I was sane again.

Number 8: How many other black students? I believe there were fifty of us totally at Grinnell during the period of time that I was there. Now‚ mind you‚ I only stayed at Grin.nell one year. After that one year I transferred from Grinnell and I went back to Illinois to attend a state college. Names don't remember too many names‚ and the names that I do remember‚ I don't remember the last names. But I will give you one or two that I can remember. My roommate's name was LaVenia Davis‚ there was another girl named Corita-she had a brother there at the time was a sophomore-his name was Butch‚ at least we called him Butch‚ and I don't even remember what really his name was. There was a Denise. I know this is not helping you any because I have no last names‚ but I'm doing the best I can. There were three upperclassmen‚ I think‚ that I can remember. One's name was John-I don't remember s last name‚ and there was a Phyllis ---------- those are all the names I can really remember at this point. Now at some other time during the course of this tape I think of any more I'll just cut in and I'll bring you back to that question.

Number 9: What kind of interaction did you have with other black students? I would have to say well‚ after three months of feeling each other out to see where everyone else was coming from‚ and to find out we really didn't know‚ we would visit each other‚ the girls especially‚ we'd go to each other's rooms after dinner and kid around with each other and just talk. The guys were still feeling us out because there were‚ I think‚ four guys that came in our class and six girls‚ and so they just thought that they were going to have a field day. So we really didn't interact with the males very much until about four months into the school year when they‚ I guess‚ had decided who they wanted to hit on at that time. We organized into several groups‚ one being a black choir that was started that year‚ and I think we were pretty good‚ too. We traveled to Chicago and gave a concert and it was an enjoyable thing.There were other groups that were organized‚ but I think they were more detrimental than anything else in that they were cliques‚ which you will find practically everywhere you go‚but there were so few of us that the cliques didn't help as far as unification was concerned. Some of my most memorable experiences with my classmates were‚ I guess‚ the bullshit sessions that we used to have. I hate -to use that term‚ but that's what they were called at the time. They were called bullshit sessions‚ and we would all sit around and everybody‚ I guess‚ at that point--that was around November or December--had gotten very‚ very frustrated up at Grinnell. It seemed we were all very confused‚ we all felt we were losing our identity and we would just sit in the lounge of the dormitories or we would go over to the student center and we'd start playing cards and we'd just get into arguments and just argue with each other just for the satisfaction of knowing that we were separate-we were a separate group. Although we were black and we were at this College were were still a separate group and we had to do something to maintain our identity. And sometimes it got quite funny. We would all be sitting around just arguing away‚ using the worst language we could possibly use. I guess that was‚ that was just our way of getting out frustrations. But I think what made it so funny is the other students that were in the student center at the time would not know how to take it. They would really‚ really think that we were about to jump on each other and beat someone to death. When we would just-that was just our way of‚ like I say‚ of getting rid of anxiety‚ frustration‚ whatever‚ and many times when we would do that‚ white would certainly look over at us and get up and run out of the center as if “Oh‚ my God‚ there's going to be a fight!“ And we would just fall out--to be truthful about it‚ we just got to the point where whenever we wanted a place to ourselves‚ we would do that and everybody would clear out and we'd have the whole place to ourselves.

Number 10: I did not have any white roommates.

Number 11: I did not perceive any particular college housing policy for black students. The policy was very flexible. They would ask you when you got there whether or not you wanted a black or a white roommate and you had a choice. I didn't really deal with that because‚ as I say‚ my roommate and I had decided we were going to be roommates before we got there since we had known each other from high school. You were not‚ like I say‚ discouraged from living with whoever you wanted. As a matter of fact‚ in '72‚ when I was there‚ I guess after about six months could live with whomever you desired‚ whether that be another woman or another man‚ be they black or white‚ and that was something that I just never heard of. I wrote my mother and I said “Oh‚ Mama‚ you' just never believe what's going on. You can move-live with anybody you want to. You could move in with a man.“ At whi my mother probably dropped the phone and screamed at me “Don't you move in with a man!“ It was a big mess. But anyway...

Number 12: White students-how did they react to us? That's a very hard question. They did not-I mean‚ we were just like everyone else there. There was not any racism that I experienced. Everybody just did whatever was they had to do‚ and nobody really paid any attention to anybody there. But I think because the area‚ because of where the College was‚ and just the fact that we were in such a minority coming from a vast majority in Chicago‚ I think that is why we felt as if we had to retain our identity. It was not because of the white students‚ any means. I believe most these students‚ most of the white students had had prior experiences with black people. You can always tell when one hasn't had experience with black people because they look at you like they!ve never seen one of you before. I did not experience that here.

Number 13: Did white students aver confront you-no‚ that never happened to me. Never happened to me students. I think one professor asked me that‚ and I-he twas just a regular question: “Well‚ how do you like being here‚ you know you are in the minority here and how do you feel? Are you comfortable? Is everything alright?“ He was just asking just to see how things were going. And I told him that I did feel a‚ little strange being one of 50 black students a school of‚ I think at that time‚ a thousand‚ thousand two hundred.

Number 14: I think I basically answered number 14‚ but for purposes pf this transcript‚ I will do it again. It did cause problems with my cultural identity that I did not want to be seen as one who went straight from a black world into a white and had nothing left over from the black world. I always feared that. I always feared that and I think one of the reasons that I feared that is because I found a couple of students there who had done what I call “the crossover“ and I just could not understand how that could happen. I did consider myself to have a separate cultural identity because I do. We did. And we still do.

So that feeling has not changed even now.

Very little social interaction took place between black and white students that I knew of. There was some interaction‚ I'm sure‚ but I-the group that I really hung with‚ there was very little interaction between the two.

Extra-curricular activities: To be honest‚ I was not involved in too many extra-curricular activities in that I was too busy trying to keep my grades up and trying just to keep up with these professors because they were killing me-I never studied so hard in my life.

Number 17: I was not-I did not feel discouraged from participating in anything‚ and there were no school activities that were restricted to blacks by any means. None. Oh‚ I just thought of one extra-curricular activity I was in and that was something that I just set out for myself and that was going to the gym that had been built and running around the track about two times and falling out and coming home and going to sleep.

Number 18: Grinnell did insulate and isolate you from the real world. I felt that way. It was-it had gotten to the point when I finally became acclimated to Grinnell's environment when I would go home to visit and get off the bus in Chicago‚ I was just overwhelmed. It would take me about two days to speed up to Chicago's pace. And if I stayed in Chicago more than a week‚ it would take me at least two to three days to slow back down again. So I would think that it did have an effect on me as far as felling insulated. Isolated--I really can't say I felt isolated as much as I did just far away. I didn't really feel like I was by myself‚ because there were so many other students there that were going through the same thing I was‚ so what do they say “Misery loves company.“

Number 19: I was aware of some national events‚ Civil Rights activities. At this point‚ I cannot remember what was going on as far as Civil Rights activities were concerned. I do remember Nixon‚ at the time‚ but I can say honestly that none of these events affected me at Grinnell because I was too busy for the first time‚ probably in my life‚ keeping my head in the books.

Martin Luther King was dead when I was at Grinnell. That's the answer to Number 20.

21: The black authors I read at Grinnell were very‚ very few. I think I read The Fire Next Time in my freshman year. But that was not something I got from the library‚that was something that was in my mother's collection.

None of these authors really influenced me‚ really. Not at Grinnell.

Number 22: As a student? Yes‚ I did feel an obligation to participate in Civil Rights activities at Grinnell‚ and must explain that in that I only participated in one Civil Rights activity and that was to write letters to a town that was nearby stating that we did not feel that they were treating black prisoners right. I hate to even bring that up‚ because I don't remember the town that was nearby‚but I do know it had a very large black population and police brutality and racism were very‚ very out at that time. It seems as if this whole town was a plantation and we received news of it because there was one female student there whose name I don't remember who was from this town and used to relay this information to us. So we did have a writing campaign to the mayor of that small town stating that it was not fair‚ we were going to picket‚ and such and such. We never did picket‚ but we did write. That was the only Civil Rights activity that I participated in that I remember. At home during vacations‚ I was too busy working and having a ball to do anything else.

Number 23: I was involved in a black organization called CBS in 1972. CBS meaning Concerned Black Students. I'm not sure if that is the term of the black group that is there now. I was the recording secretary for the group at that time.

Number 24: What kind of reaction did white students have? They had very little reaction because most of the NAACP because I didn't know about it. As matter of fact‚ time they did not know‚ nor did they probably care what were doing. The issues were discussed openly at forums were held in the student center‚ but I was never there. we that But there were students who were actively involved in this. I was not. I was not involved in the Grinnell Chapter of the a maybe it was in existence when I was there‚ but I didn't know about it and there was no recruitment effort.

I was not involved in any International Club.

The most positive personal experience that I received from Grinnell was the fact that I learned how to learn. I learned how to study like I should have been doing all the time. I learned how to read to get the essence of what I was reading‚ rather than just reading to get through it. I think that's one of the most positive things that could ever happen to me in my life. I feel I'm a lot more self-disciplined and persistent because of that. The most negative experience at Grinnell was in an English class. I had an English class that basically‚ we just analyzed poems‚ and I had always been taught by all the teachers I had ever had that a poem means what you make it mean‚ and I really don't think that that is the case--I won't generalize like that‚ but I don't think that was the case with the white students in that class because they all seemed to know that this poem meant a certain thing‚ whereas when I read it‚ I read it and I wrote down what I thought it meant to me. Well‚ anyway‚ I made the mistake of my life by doing that‚ because the professor made me stand up in class and he made an example of me as one who had not had the educational training enough to analyze a poem correctly. He stood me up in front of the class and he said “Now‚ class‚ this is a prime example of a product of the Chicago Public schools.“ How he knew I had gone to Chicago Public schools .... It was a very‚ very embarrassing position to be put in‚ and the students were--my poem was read out loud by him. I'm sorry‚ not my poem-the analysis of the poem I had written was read out loud by the instructor‚ and the group just fell out. It was very embarrassing because I had written what I had felt that poem to mean to me. I'd never seen that poem before in my life. After class was over‚ I was so embarrassed that I walked out of the classroom with my head down‚ and I've never done that. I've been embarrassed before‚ but I've never walked out with my head bowed down. And I said to myself that I refused to ever let that happen to me again.And I think the next day I dropped that class.

Number 28: Who had the most personal influence on your life as a student? I must say the professor in that English class that embarrassed me so because he let me know first of all‚ how little that I knew‚ second of all‚ that I was going to be determined for the rest of my life not to ever‚ ever be put in that position again. Since then‚ I have not been in hat position again. If I open my mouth‚ most of the time I know what I'm talking about and I can back it up. I was unable to do that with him because I was not familiar with the subject. So I've just kind of gotten to the point that if I don't know what I'm talking about‚ then I shut up‚ and I wait until I do. It also gives me the impetus to go out and find the answers‚ which is something that I wasn't too crazy about doing before. But now I am. So I must say that professor had the most influence on my life as a student there‚ and on my life‚ period.

I made what I thought were long lasting friendships at Grinnell‚ however‚ once I left Grinnell in May of '73‚ a lot of the contact I had had with my friends there was not kept up and because of that I regret most of those people that I was really close to at Grinnell I haven't heard from in years. But I would imagine if I were to see them again‚ that we would still be friends but it was more the “Glad to see you“ type thing. I would not say they were really long lasting.

The town of Grinnell just received us like they did anyone else. I did not encounter any difficulties in the town. As a matter of fact‚ we always found the people quite friendly and sometimes quite stupid. And I say that because there were many‚ many students at the time‚ both white and black‚ that were ripping the town off blind. Eut yes they always welcomed us in the stores and the town of Grinnell really‚ really took a chance. I'm sure they knew what was going on‚ but they took a chance‚ I would imagine‚ knowing that there were a few honest students around. And they always treated us like they treated anyone else.

Number 31: I knew of one black family living in Grinnell‚ but they moved the very first month that I got there so I really did not get to know them very well. There was a professor that was there‚ and I don't even-Connie something. I'm bad with names.

Number 32: I did not know any black alumni of Grinnell at the time. At all.

Number 33: I was-let's say I was semi-happy at Grinnell. I'll explain that. I missed home‚ I missed my friends at home. After a certain point the cliques had become so strong that it was difficult for anybody to be happy there. Although we did have our periods of happiness. I would say basicallyI was happy. I guess I have to use the word semi-happy.“

I was happy and then I wasn't‚ but I guess the best term for that would be what I said-“semi-happy.“

Number 34: When I left Grinnell in May of '73‚ I transferred to Northern Illinois University and-oh‚ I forgot to say why I left Grinnell. I did not want to leave Grinnell‚ I wanted to come back the next year. However‚ in January of '73 they notified us that the Journalism Department was closing down because there were not enough students in there to support the department. So‚ on that note‚ I decided that I didn't want to do anything else but be in Journalism‚ and moved all the way to DeKalb‚ Illinois‚ Northern Illinois University‚and ended up changing my major to speech pathology‚ which is what I received my bachelor's degree in. I left Northern Illinois‚ I graduated Northern Illinois in 1972-I'm sorry‚1976‚ and I went down to Southern Illinois University in Edwardsville‚ which is about 20 miles from St. Louis‚ and pursued my master's degree in Speech Pathology. I am presently a speech pathologist. I got I guess about four years of experience in now‚ and I really enjoy the field. I'm glad I didn't go into Journalism. I really am glad I didn't go‚ because I guess I found out up at Northern that I was much more interested in Speech Therapy than I was Journalism. I think the pursuit of Journalism was more my mother's want than mine‚ and I'd been hearing her drill it in me for years‚it had become mine. But mine not necessarily because I wanted it to.

As far as work experience‚ once I graduated from SIU‚ I‚ as a matter of fact I married a month before I went through my orals to complete my degree. I moved to St. Louis where I stayed for‚ it was about three years. I recently moved back to Chicago. I was divorced recently. I have no children and I've gotten remarried. The first marriage was to a fellow who went to William Penn College which was not very far from Grinnell‚ which is also where I met him. I am not politically involved at this time‚ I am thinking about becoming involved once I move to Michigan. Chicago politics are just too big for me. I don't have the money to pay anybody off. Community involvement-none. I currently live in a predominantly black neighborhood‚ and I work in a predominantly black suburb called Harvey‚ Illinois.

As far as work experience‚ once I graduated from SIU‚ I‚ as a matter of fact I married a month before I went through my orals to complete my degree. I moved to St. Louis where I stayed for‚ it was about three years. I recently moved back to Chicago. I was divorced recently. I have no children and I've gotten remarried. The first marriage was to a fellow who went to William Penn College which was not very far from Grinnell‚ which is also where I met him. I am not politically involved at this time‚ I am thinking about becoming involved once I move to Michigan. Chicago politics are just too big for me. I don't have the money to pay anybody off. Community involvement-none. I currently live in a predominantly black neighborhood‚ and I work in a predominantly black suburb called Harvey‚ Illinois.

As far as work experience‚ once I graduated from SIU‚ I‚ as a matter of fact‚ I married a month before I went through my orals to complete my degree. I moved to St. Louis where I stayed for‚ it was about three years. I recently moved back to Chicago. I was divorced recently. I have no children and I've gotten remarried. The first marriage was to a fellow who went to William Penn College which was not very far from Grinnell‚ which is also where I met him. I am not politically involved at this time‚ I am thinking about becoming involved once I move to Michigan. Chicago politics are just too big for me. I don't have the money to pay anybody off. Community involvement-none. I currently live in a predominantly black neighborhood‚ and I work in a predominantly black suburb called Harvey‚ Illinois.

To what extent did your courses-the course that-all of the courses I had at Grinnell definitely did not address the issue of race or the black experience. The only one that I had was my tutorial that I had a part of being involved with‚ and that was very interesting. It was a tutorial that was conducted by a professor who had lived in Africa for several years‚ and we were all required to research various areas and cultures in Africa and I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed that. I worked my butt off‚ and I really learned a lot. I really did.

I was not involved in church at Grinnell‚ nor am I involved now that much. In St. Louis I was‚ but now that I've moved back to Chicago‚ I'm really not.

The impact that Grinnell had on my life was a very‚ very good one. Socially‚ I have learned to enjoy being by myself‚ because I was by myself a lot at Grinnell. And I think that was a good experience for me‚ one that I needed because before I went to Grinnell I always had to be around someone. Someone always had to be around me. Now I just enjoy being around myself‚ and I think that was a very‚ very good effect it had. Educationally‚ I mentioned before that Grinnell taught me how to learn‚ and that is what I think has been the most important thing that has ever happened to me. It taught me how to learn‚ and it taught me to persevere when it just doesn't seem like you're going to learn it whatever it is you're on at the time. It just taught me to keep going and if you really‚ really put an effort into it you will achieve. So educationally‚ it did teach me that. Emotionally‚ I don't really think Grinnell had an effect on my life as far as emotions is concerned. Wait a minute‚ I'll have to reiterate that‚ because maybe it did. Because of the small environment and the number of cliques out of 50 black people‚ it did effect me‚ I guess‚ emotionally‚ in that the test-cliques now‚ whereas before it was a fact of life‚ it was just something you expected. Because of the experienceI guess that had an effect on how I feel about groups within a group. I've gotten to the point instead of trying to be a part of one particular group‚ I shy away from all of them now. So I think I have answered all of your questions to the best of my ability. I hope that I've elaborated enough. As much as I talk‚ Lord knows I probably have elaborated too much‚ but I do wish you luck in your project. I wish you much success at Grinnell and good luck on this. I would surely love to see results of this. I'm sure there will not be results‚ but any end effect of your research‚ I would really like to see it if that is possible. If not‚ well‚ bug deal. I'm glad I could help. I think‚ Stuart‚ once you leave Grinnell‚ you'll find that it was a great experience‚ including both the positive and the negative aspects. So good luck in everything you do. God Bless.