The Black Experience at Grinnell College Through Collected Oral History and Documents, 1863–1954

Stuart Yeager: What I've been doing is starting out these histories byfilling you in on some of the events that took place as you came into Grinnell the first couple of years on the national scene to kind of reorient you with---it's been quite a while so I want to remind you of what types of things were going on at the time. It might help you to remember a little bit more about Grinnell itself‚ the contrast of what was going on and what was going on at Grinnell. In 1961‚ Martin Luther King was beginning to organize freedom rides. Equal opportunity practices were being urged-just the beginnings of civil rights activities--not anything that really caught the media's attention until a little bit later on. We had violence going on in the south--resistance to voter registration. Very few blacks were--were you involved in the ROTC?

Randall Morgan: Yes. The first year I was in ROTC.

Yeager: Because at the time the percentage of Negro officers was very‚ very scant. In the army 3.2% were officers; air force‚ 1.2%; navy‚ .3%; and marine‚ .2%. This had a lot of effect on people especially when the draft started. Why don't I begin by asking you some questions about your background‚ your family background before you came to Grinnell and how you decided to come to Grinnell. First‚ can you tell me a little bit about your parents' background‚ their education‚ the nature of your home town‚ the nature of your high school‚ the religious affiliation of your parents and their political affiliation.

Morgan: My mother was a graduate of Roosevelt High School in Gary and she was salutatorian. She graduated in 1936‚and she went to Fisk University for two years in Nashville‚ Tennesse and then the last two years she went to the University of Michigan and got her degree and started a career teaching and met my father in Columbia‚ South Carolina just before World War II. They were teaching at Booker T. Washington High School which was a very outstanding black high school. It was sort of a magnet school for black teachers all over the country at that point in time. My father was from Natchez‚ Mississippi‚ and finished high school in 1934‚ I think‚ and went to Rust College in Holly Springs‚ Mississippi‚ for two years and then transferred and graduated from Northwestern in Chicago. He then went to teach also until the war‚ I think in 1941. He went through officer candidate school and became a lieutenant and captain and eventually a major. He was a company commander of his unit in the Philippines. He was in the Philippines‚ I think‚ for well over two years.

Yeager: Was this an all black unit or was it intergrated?

Morgan: It was an all black unit as far as I know. And then‚ as far as graduate work: My mother has her masters now. She spent the early part of her career in social work‚ in Gary‚ and then from 1952 until about 1979‚ she was teaching in the public schools. She got her masters in education several years ago. My father was with the veterans' administration in Gary after the war from 1946 in which he worked with veteran placement both white and black in terms of jobs and education all over the Gary area‚ the northwest Indiana area. He went into business from himself in 1950‚ the drug business. He had two drug stores and helped to develop a medical center in Gary‚ and then got into medical group management. When I went back to Gary to practice‚ he then began to manage my practice‚ and we have a building now that he owns and runs‚ and I have my office in that building.

Yeager: Can you tell me something about Gary itself‚ your neighborhood in Gary and the high school you went to?

Morgan: Gary was a sort of a neighborhood‚ segregated city. At the time I was growing up‚ I think there was a range from 135‚000 to 160‚000 of which the percentage of blacks was 33%. It subsequently has changed during the time I was in college and graduate school to where it's now probably 70% black. The school I went to was Roosevelt High School. It was another of these so-called magnet black schools and had a very rich tradition and strong faculty. I cannot remember being in a class with a nonblack until I came to Grinnell. I finished in 1961‚ and I was co-valedictorian of the class. I was involved in lots of activities in the high school among which were sports--basketball and baseball; music--I was first clarinetist in the band and the orchestra; science club; science fair; some aspects of student government; and the year book staff. There were also a number of activities in Gary at that time which were city-wide activities which did allow interchange in competition with some of the other students in the high schools. At the time my school was the only school that had a totally black student body out of eight high schools. Now that's almost totally different. But we were in certain things such as the city-wide band and the orchestra and the Joe Berg scholar group‚ which was an advanced study group for certain high school students‚ the high school ffurnmer institute of the National Science Foundation in Bloomington‚ Indiana‚ Hoosier Boys' State‚ AOA‚ Scouts and other activities‚ in which there was a much more integrated experience.

Yeager: So when you came to Grinnell you had had some exposure to white students?

Morgan: Yes‚ I had had some‚ and particularly with the so-called cream of the crop‚ I guess‚ in the Gary public school area.

Yeager: Can you tell me a little about your religious affiliation and your parents' political affiliation?

Morgan: Well‚ as far as I can remember‚ my family has always been Methodist. Both my mother and my father were raised in the Methodist Church. My father's father was a Methodist minister and district superintendent in Mississippi so that they were very strongly Methodist. And my father‚ his sister and brother all went to Northwestern which at that time had a strong Methodist affiliation. My mother‚ likewise‚ was raised in the Methodist Church. The church in which I spent my formative years was the Methodist Church in Gary called Delaney Methodist Church‚ which was a small church made up of a group of families. Probably‚ they got together in the '3O's. And the generations just carried the church along. It was not a real big church‚ but it was what you'd call a definite Methodist Church‚ not a AME or a CIVIE or one of the other derivativ€S of the Methodist Church. And I have remained a Methodist though my interest somewhat waned as most college students. But I did attend the chapel on a regular basis when I came to Grinnell and when I was in professional school. Presently‚ I'm attending another Methodist Church in Gary which is an integrated church which is in my neighborhod. As far as my parents' political affiliation‚ they've always been Democrats as far as I can remember. I can remember them voting for Harry Truman in 1948. At that time I was in kindergarten. But they are both very apolitical in terms of being vocal in the community.

Yeager: How did you choose Grinnell and what were your friends' reactions to your choosing Grinnell? Your parents' reactions?

Morgan: My parents helped to choose Grinnell because I had a cousin‚ Alphanette White‚ who graduated from Grinnell in 1957‚ and I had heard about Grinnell through her and my aunt. My parents came up to her graduation and were impressed with the school so it was sort of always presented to me as I matriculated in high school. But I didn't come to see the college until I was a prospective student in March of my senior year in high school. At that point I had applied to four schools: Grinnell‚ Oberlin‚ the University of Wisconsin and the University of Michigan‚ two big and two small. Grinnell was the first one I visited‚and I had some very positive experiences when I came on my prospective visit. And I decided not to look at any more. I decided to go to Grinnell. There were many people from Chicago whom I knew or had known of such as Jim Lowrey and Jim Simmons‚ George Gray and the late Mickey Clark. Then there was Bill Lighi:rfoote from Tuskegee‚ Alabama‚ who was at Grinnell as a sophomore student. And I had the opportunity to meet a lot of these people.

Yeager: How did you meet this group? How did you know these people ahead of time? Morgen: Well‚ some of them I knew through my family. My uncle and my cousins over in Chicago were sort of in the same social set? My cousins both went to Francis Parker High School in Chicago whichfor years has supplied black students to Grinnell. It's sort of a Grinnell tradition‚ black and white students‚ so that you would sort of hear about Grinnell in that circle. I don't remember any of the traditional ways of learning about the college‚ such as picking up a handbook and seeing the college or a college fair. They didn't have those in those days.

You weren't actively recruited.

Morgan: No. I don't think I was actively recruited.

Yeager: When you arrived at Grinnell what types of goals did you set for yourself? Did you have any occupational goals? Or any other types of goals?

Morgan: I had just about decided to be a physician at that point based upon experiences that I had the summer before my senior year in high school at the National Science Foundation summer institute in Bloomington‚ Indiana. We had visited the medical school in Indianapolis‚ and I felt that medium was a good combination of my interests. Heretofore‚ I had not been able to really come down to a definite occupation. It was sort of a tentative choice based upon how I did the first two years at Grinnell‚ but I think I can remember indicating that I was a pre-med from the time I entered Grinnell and in terms of specific majors‚ I think I had an inkling towards chemistry instead of biology. And then as I started taking more courses‚ I became more interested in the chemistry curriculum and the department. During my sophomore year is when I definitely decided to go into medicine and to major in chemistry.

Yeager: As a student what were your primary concerns? What were you thinking about? What was important to you at that time?

Morgan: Well‚ the most important thing was to be academically successful. I didn't know quite where I fit in‚ but I knew that I certainly wasn't the brightest student at Grinnell‚ so it wasn't a shock to me when I found out that I wasn't. I guess I had enough confidence in myself‚ based upon other experiences‚ that I felt that I could compete‚ whatever the ground rules were‚ I could play the game. I wasn't sure how the game was going to go‚ but I didn't really have any serious doubts as to whether I was going to make it. And I think it was reasonably important for me to know people and to feel a part of my environment. I was not a loner. It was probably a sort of a 'rebound phenomenon' from being an only child‚ I've always been reasonably outgoing‚ know people‚ remember names‚ make association between people‚ and be fairly sociable‚ so that I didn't realiy have a socialization process to go through when I came to Grinnell. And then I was fortunate to be able to have a skeleton of people that I knew or I knew of from which I could jump from one to the other from the familiar all the time familiarizing myself with more people around me. But there were no organizations or clubs or houses or anything that were there to support me.

Yeager: I'm interested in knowing since you lived in Gary all your life‚ was it difficult for you to adjust to a rural setting like Grinnell?

Morgan: Well‚ Gary was a small city‚ sort of a step-child of Chicago. There wasn't a heck of a lot to do even in Gary even though the population was great. Most of what we did was in Chicago‚ in terms of athletic events and entertainment aside from going to the show. The life in Gary revolved around the high school basically. And by the same token there were parts of life in Gary that were very residential‚ very people-oriented and so at Grinnell‚ first of all‚ I was in college‚ so to me by that definition college was a self-contained unit which was sort of different from the outside environment. And I had been out here once so I had an idea of what Iowa was like and what Grinnell‚ Iowa‚ was like. I think there was some apprehension on my part in terms of my acceptance by the town and how I would relate to the town.

Yeager: What kinds of experiences did you have with the town?

Morgan: Most were tolerant; some were very nice and outgoing‚ some of the merchants. I can remember the Varsity Book Store‚ JD's‚ the Poweshiek County Bank‚ and I can remember Mr. Stanford's barber shop where I had to go and get my hair cut. And that was probably the most traumatic thing for me.

Yeager: He had never cut black people's hair?

Morgan: Yes. And I had him cut it very often afterwards. But I remember Mr. Stanford saying‚ “If you'll come‚ I'll try. You tell me how you want it cut and I'll try and cut it that way.“ And after two or three times‚ I got to where I could get a fairly decent haircut. But at least he didn't tell me‚ “Don't come.“ The only funny types of racial incidents that I might remember would be if I was walking along at night‚ sometimes cars would drive by and stop and holler out “Nigger“ or something like that and then scoot off. Ironically‚ that happened last night to either one of the faculty members or one of the black alums‚ I can't remember‚ over on Tenth Street‚ so it made you feel like things hadn't changed too much. The other sensitive area for the town‚ I think‚ was interracial dating. When we would go for something to eat or to the Rex‚ which was the bar‚ sort of the club type‚ or to the Strand Theater (it was the Strand at that time) there would be some epithets hurled our way if we were going with a white girl and sometimes even very fair black girls whom‚ at night‚ they couldn't tell whether they were black or white.

Yeager: Who were some of the fair black students because I've been identifying blacks through the year book and if they were fair‚ we ...

Morgan: Sue Brown from Washington‚ D.C.‚ in the class of 1962. I never went out with Sue. She was a senior when I was a freshman. But she was quite fair‚ very attractive. Mickey Clark was very brown-skinned but very stunning; she was absolutely beautiful. And she was sort of the star of the college and the town. I think her beauty just transcended her blackness.

Yeager: Did she eventually marry someone from Grinnell?

Morgan: No. She left in 1963‚ 1962. She was in the class of '63‚ but she stayed on the campus only for a little more than a semester when I was here. She had come to Grinnell from the University of Chicago lab school at age fifteen‚ Had a lot of attention‚ was a cheerleader‚ was sort of everything. I really think she sort of lost interest by the time she was a junior so she transferred and moved back to Chicago. She is now deceased. It might be interesting to try to review some things about her. She was the Michelle Clark who was the CBS correspondent who worked with Walter Cronkite on the republican national convention; I think it was the '72 convention.

Yeager: She changed her name?

Morgan: No‚ that was her name. Michelle Clark‚ Mickey Clark.

Yeager: Oh‚ Mickey Clark‚ right. I'm sorry.

Morgan: And she was involved in that airplane crash at Midway Airlines in Chicago when the congressman was on there and there was some question about whether the plane was sabotaged‚ around Christmas of the early '?O's. But she was an up and coming news commentator and was just coming into her own and she was killed in that plane crash. But she was one of Grinnell's outstanding black students even though she didn't graduate. And I think she had quite an impact on all of us who were here at the time that she was here. But‚ at any rate‚ Marilyn Gray I went out with quite a bit when I was a senior. And then there were just lots of white girls that I went out with when I was on the campus.

Yeager: How many blacks were there on campus at that time?

Morgan: American blacks‚ I think about nine. I can almost name them all. It seems to me there were about four African men. I don't remember any African females. There were only three black girls on campus when I was a freshman.

Yeager: students? What kind of interaction did you have with other black We had formal organization later‚ but what type of organization did you have?

Morgan: We had the dormitory and the union rap sessions where you just talked. I would sit there at the feet of the experienced Grinnell blacks who would tell me how it was at the college and at the town‚ who to look out for‚ who to relate to and who not to relate to. But it wasn't anything formal. Nobody would seek you out. They were always be available to answer your questions if you sought them out. In a sense‚ basically I wanted to know everybody. I ended up knowing everybody. There were a few who would come to the dorm---there were a few who were a little less serious perhaps about their studies than the others of us were and would come to the dorm late at night with long stories and things of that nature‚ often very humorous. But in general‚ it was a positive experience‚ knowing and interacting with the other blacks on the campus. But we never did anything en masse. There was never a time when all nine or ten or eleven black students got together to make a decision or to discuss a certain topic.

Yeager: Why not? Because you were in different dorms or because ...

Morgan: We were in different dorms. We were in different classes. We had never been sort of directed to do that by anybody‚ the college or any of the students. And most of us probably didn't feel it was necessary.

Yeager: You knew each other were there when you wanted ...

Morgan: Yes. But I think the basic thing was that we were interacting quite well with our dormitory structure. And the dominant social organization was the dormitory at that point in time at Grinnell for all students.

Yeager: Did you every have any white roommates?

Morgan: Yes.

Yeager: Did you have difficulty in adjusting to a white roommate?

Morgan: No. My first year Bill Lightfoote and I roomed together‚ He was from Tuskegee. I had stayed with him when I was a prospective student.

Yeager: Was he white?

Morgan: No‚ he was black. He was in the class of '63. And then after that I roomed with two fellows who were in my class. What we actually did ... We had a single on one side of the hall and a double on the other‚ and we made the single a study and all three of us slept in the double with a bunk and then another bed‚ in West Norris. But we considered the three of us to be roommates. Then my junior year i roomed with one of those fellows‚ Barry Anderson from Rockford‚ Illinois. And my senior year I was the hall president of West Norris‚ so I had the president's suite; so I had my own room.

Yeager: You had no difficulty in adjusting? Your experiences up to this point had been wide enough to ...

Morgan: Yes. And these were people that I had decided were like my best friends on campus. I don't ever remember my best friends on campus being black after my freshman year‚exceptagirl friend. But other than that it might have been the guys I played basketball with or people in chemistry or something.

Yeager: How did white students react generally to black students? Had they had prior experiences‚ did you think‚ before meeting black students at Grinnell?

Morgan: Well‚ I think there were a lot that didn't have prior experiences; I think there were some that did‚ most of the urban ones. The Iowa kids‚ by and large‚ did not have exposure. The ones from the east did. The ones from Chicago‚ many of them did on a very peripheral basa.s. The Chicago suburbs were quite lilywhite at that time. But at least they had more exposure in terms of the newspapers and in terms of things that were going on in buasiness and shopping and some of the other things in the Chicago area.. But there were kids from Iowa who had had no exposure to blacks who were really probably somewhat ignorant about blacks and black life and culture. It wasn't necessary for them to really know a whole lot about black culture because we assimilated in the white culture pretty much at that point in time. There wasn't really a struggle. We just kind of did it‚ I guess. As time went on‚ we would present certain aspects of our own experiences and culture‚ some in a joking manner‚ some in a serious manner ...

Yeager: When you say‚ “We“‚ are you talking about the black students as a group?

Morgan: No. As individuals. Maybe two or three of us‚ but not as a whole group. So in talking about our experiences and what we did and how it was different from this and that‚ and presenting the music and the arts and talking about the entertainment that was on campus and things‚ they began to learn more about where we were from.

Yeager: Was there an interest on the part of white students to know about these things?

Morgan: I don't think there was an expressed interest. It was probably a tolerated interest. But there wasn't an intellectual interst in knowing where I came from. They probably‚ the assumption was probably‚ generally that all blacks came from ghettos. However‚ I always found that if you were able to communicate verbally‚ then you had no particular problems with white students. If you were very quiet and introspective‚ you might. And I think that still holds true today.

Yeager: I was going to ask you about social interaction‚ dating‚ between whites and blacks. Mrs. Cannon-Colbert told me earlier that there was a problem with inter-racial dating because black males had no problem dating white females‚ but black females were not really dating black males on a regu1·ar basis.

Morgan: I think this is true. I think there were certainly instances in which one or two of the white males would take out black females‚ but I think they felt a lot more pressure. They would phantasize about these girls and how attractive they were‚ etc.‚ but I think the social pressures were much greater on them‚ the peer pressures‚ and I don't think they could handle it quite as well. It's always been my experience that white people have a very difficult time handling a minority situation. And so the white male at that point would be in the minority‚ whereas the black male is already in the minority anyway so if he's taking out a white gi r ll that doesn't really mean anything. It puts the onus on the white girl. But the girls handled it better than the boys. I think they were more open‚ and I don't think they were as hung up on the black-white sexuality issues as black males were.

Yeager: Were you aware of the activities going on outside of Grinnell‚ some of the national things going on all over the country-violence‚ the civil rights movement?

Morgan: Yes. I was aware of what was going on.

Yeager: students violence parts of as ... Why I ask you this question is because some of the earlier have said that Grinnell was quite insulated‚ While and things like that were affecting blacks in other the country‚ there was no real change at Grinnell as far

Morgan: No‚ It was insulated and there was sort of a--you'd have to say a--sympathetic movement‚ The Young Democrats‚ the Beatniks‚ the super-intellectuals‚ liberals‚ on Grinnell' s campus were very dominant at that time. And it was so that anybody that didn't agree in liberality from a political point of view was silent rather than to express dissent‚ And when the conservative or the republican point of view was expressed--and of course‚ there were a number of students that came from republican homes--it was sort of in a more intellectual way rather than in a vocal antagonistic way‚ So‚ yes‚ we knew that things were going on‚ Probably the most vivid thing I can remember is playing touch football on Mac Field and stopping when Kennedy was giving his speech about those missiles in the Bay of Pigs incident‚ And when we all thought that we were going to be drafted off the Grinnell campus to go to war‚ the entire student body was in a frenzy at that point‚ I can remember our getting together in groups and listening to the radio out there on the field to see whether or not he was going to declare a war‚ That probably was the national event that was more vivid‚ By that time‚ as far as we were concerned‚ civil rights‚ sit-ins and all‚ were the right thing to do arid it had been present really since 1960. So in 1961 it was sort of going on but it wasn't something that just started when I was here. I had some friends and relatives who had participated in Nashville‚ Selma‚ and some of the other places.

Yeager: But did you yourself participate in any of these activitites?

Morgan: No.

Yeager: Not in Gary. I guess there weren't any ...

Morgan: In Gary we had one thing. We had‚ well‚ two. We had a hospital bed segregation demonstration which I participated in and the Marquette Park‚ which is an area where I live now inihe middle section of Gary‚ at that point in time was segregatedland they had demonstrations out there in the early 1960's‚ 1961‚ 1962. But nothing in Grinnell.

Yeager: Did you follow the activities of Martin Luther King or Malcolm X and if you did‚ did you consider yourself in one of the two camps?

Morgan: I'm sure I considered myself in the Martin Luther King camp. My father sort of pushed Martin Luther King's fusion of religion and politics‚and it was dominant in my mind‚· his eloquence and what-not‚ and I couldn't relate too well to the New York‚ Harlem type of black and the problems that Malcolm X was talking about. That wasn't in my background and so I couldn't really relate to that‚and it wasn't until after he was deceased that I had some perspective in terms of where he was coming from.

Yeager: Did you feel any obligation to particip:te politically or to voice an opinion at Grinnell because you knew of events that were going on outside of Grinnell? Did you feel that the issues should be brought up with white studeni:B' Were white students concerned with discussion these issues?

Morgan: Well‚ I· :think some of them were concerned. I never was one to bring up a lot of political issues in general‚ because I'm not a political scientist. From a new point of view‚ I would bring things up‚ and I would participate in discussions; I would have an opinion‚ but I wouldn't really thirst for someone to bring it up so it could be discussed. That just wasn't quite my area.

Yeager: Were you involved in any black organizations or biracial organizations at that time?

Morgan: I wasn't in any black organizatbns. The only organizations that I can remember ... Well‚ I was in the ROTC‚ I guess for one year. I was in the Scarleteers‚ I think fairly early on‚ sophomore year‚ I think. Chemistry club. The rest of it was dormitory. But there were no black organizations to be involved in.

Yeager: Were you members of national organizations like National Urban League‚ NAACP‚ SNCC?

Morgan: No.

Yeager: None of those‚ What kind of--were you involved in international groups of any sort?

Morgan: No‚

Yeager: What was the college's policy towards housing black students? Did you feel that they encouraged or discouraged black students from living with one another or living with white students?

Morgan: They seemed to place black students with black students when they were prospective students‚ A number of the black students‚ probably more black students‚ had singles‚ from my recollection9 and some had white roommates. But I don't think the college had a real policy on it one way or the other. I think it was just sort of the way--I think the rooms were chosen just the way they were chosen otherwise‚ the draw‚ and people who wanted singles and people who wanted doubles‚ and obviously if you wanted a double‚ you'd end up choosing a roommate before you went home unless you decided that you'd rather have a freshman. I don't remember an official college:policy.

Yeager: Can you tell me what the best experience you had at Grinnell was and the worst experience that you had?

Morgan: That's difficult. I think some of the best experiences I had probably revolved around my dormitory‚ Some of the things that we did. Some of the parties that we had. Productions that we made up and put on for spring day. There was one in particular when I was a sophomore that we sort of adapted to one of the Ray Stevens' songs. It wasn't Ahab the Arab‚ but it was the other one--but at any rate we adapted this thing‚ and it was the hit of the campus. It was hilarious. And everybody just really had a great time on that particular day‚ It was sort of a big day for our dormitory because our dormitory was made up of people that wanted to leave the other traditional dorms in 1960‚ I think‚ when it was opened. And so we sort of got a reputation as being kind of the misfits. And to me it was important to do some things that were positive in terms of our dormitory‚ creatively and otherwise‚ Very early on I was into performing music in Grinnell and the first experiences I had were in singing folk music with one or two of the fellows in my dormitory who were pretty good folk guitarists. I would sing‚ and they would play‚ I did that and entertained at various house parties and things for maybe a couple of years‚ and then the last two years I was involved with a band which was called “The Ascots“‚ and we used to travel all over the state and play on the weekends as well as play frequently on campus. Well‚ I guess we started playing--it was in the Gardner Lounge‚ an interim union between the old Union and the Forum. Then we were there when the Forum opened‚ Then we played often. I remember the last time we played which was in May of 1965 just before I graduated‚ and all the others in the band were juniors except for me. And that was a particularly nostalgic and somewhat difficult time for me. Just because it was obvious at that point that I was leaving‚ So I never had a burning desire to get out of the college. I think one of the biggest highlights was when I got an 'A' in organ.ic chemistry‚ and I knew that I was fairly secure in my pre-med experiences. My most positive experience‚ I guess‚ was my acceptance by the student body. By the time I was a senior‚ I was sort of a celebrity on campus. Most people knew me‚ and I was into lots of things. I was the dorm president. There was very little that I wanted to do that I didn't get to do. But the academic achievement‚ while it was not nearly what I thought it should be--a lot of it was because I was so intent on being involved in everything on the campus so I didn't really study as hard as I could have particularly after I found my groove and I knew what it took to get what I wanted‚ I sort of rathered sacrifice 'A's' and have a little better time. Many things about athletics I remember fondly: the basketball team; some of the trips. We were moderately successful‚but we didn't have a lot of size in my senior class so as the classes graduated before me we didn't have the size to compete and for a while we weren't getting any size so‚ well‚ we had a rather mediocre year my senior year. But there were a group of five of us who were seniors on the team whom I'm very fond of) and we were all sort of co-captains and kind of a group that Coach Pfitsch likes to tease about saying that we were great guys but that we couldn't play basketball. But as time went on and things got worse and worse..‚he found out we could play basketball better than he thought we could play basketball. But at any rate‚ three of us now are doctors and the other two are alwyers‚ and I thought that was really an outstanding group of Grinnell-type people.

Yeager: Were Jim Simmons or Jim Lowrey on it?

Morgan: No. They were gone. They graduated just as I was coming in. All the rest were white fellows: Clyde Smith‚ who's a physician now in Texas‚ I think‚ and a plastic surgeon; Tom Bucholtz‚ who is a physician--he's from Ames--I don't know where he is now; Dave Sellergren‚ who is an attorney in Minneapolis-St. Paul; and Dick Ullrich‚who is an attorney in St. Louis.

Yeager: Have you kept in contact with people from Grinnell since you left?

Morgan: Yes. I went through a little period there where I didn't-right after my tenth reunion in '75. And I really haven't contacted my class agent. I don't know why. I just didn't. There are a lot of things that I've done that probably should have been in the newspaper‚ but I just was too lazy to write them in.

Yeager: I want to talk to you about who had the most influence on your life at Grinnell: teacher‚ student‚ other?

Morgan: The most?

Yeager: The most. The single individual.

Morgan: I think probably the person who had the most influence was Dr. Danforth in chemistry. He counseled me through pre-med‚and he encouraged me‚ He was tough‚ but once I was accepted by Dr. Danforth‚ that meant a lot to me. I just saw him yesterday at the football game‚ and I'm still very fond of him. Probably as a faculty member‚ I remember him most vividly. Another one is Luther Erickson. Most of them were science‚ chemistry‚ professors. Jack Swenson‚ who's not here any more‚ Dr. Oelke. Wally Walker. The students I would imagine would be Bill Lightfoote and Barry Anderson‚ who was in my class. I guess that's about all‚

Yeager: Can you tell me a little about your work after Grinnell? Can you give me a little bit of a career profile of what you've been doing since Grinnell?

Morgan: I left Grinnell in 1965‚ and I went to medical school at Howard University in Washington‚ D.C. I graduated in 1969‚ and I then went to Chicago‚ and I was an intern at Passavant Hospital‚ and then I went to residency at Northwestern University in Chicago in orthopedics from 1970 to '74‚ I was in private practice in a group in Evanston from '74 until '75‚ Then I moved back to Gary in July of '75 and took my boards in orthopedic surgery in September of '75‚ and I've been in practice in Gary every since. I took on a first partner in 1977 and just took on the second partner this summer‚ 1981. So we've been in Gary since then‚ and I've just been involved in lota; of activities there. Hospital related‚ National Medical Association. Teaching at two schools.

Yeager: What two schools?

Morgan: Northwestern and I.U. medical school branch in Gary‚ I have been involved in alot of sports medicine and a lot of adolescents in my orthopedic practice. And so I have become more and more interested in counseling students and working with them in terms of college and career goals. I've sort of begun to drift back into that‚ and at this point in time Grinnell allows an outlet for that because they're encouraging it and because it's convenient and because I know the people so well‚ It's convenient for me to come and visit. It's sort of a respite for me as well as perhaps whatever service I might be for the college‚ So right now at this point in time‚ I see our primary goal as being an unofficial resource for some of the black students on campus where they could keep themselves in perspective in terms of where they fit into the whole big world. I sense that as being the most difficult thing that they have to do‚ And then also in the matter of identifying and recruition students‚ both black and white for the college.

Yeager: Marriage? Children?

Morgan: I was married in 1968 in Washington‚ D.C. My wife was a '65 graduate of Wellesley. She got a master's at Johns Hopkins‚ and she's a retired math teacher on the high school level. I have three daughters: Sharon‚ who's eight; Laura‚ who's six; and Carla‚ who's three.