The Black Experience at Grinnell College Through Collected Oral History and Documents, 1863–1954

Stuart Yeager: We start with questions about your family and then we move up to your Grinnell Experience and then after your Grinnell Experience. First off‚ can you tell me something abdut your parents? Their occupations? Their educational backgrounds?

Donald Stewart: My mother and father were both born in the north‚ both grew up in western Pennsylvania. My father is a high school graduate‚ with a good deal of night school education but not a college degree. My mother has whatever is the equivalent to an Associate's degree-two years of college.

Yeager: Can you tell me something about the community which you grew up in? Was it segregated? Non-segregated? What was the socio-economic background?

Stewart: I would say mid.dle crass and integrated. I grew up in Hyde Park in Chicago‚ near the University of Chicago. We were the first black family to move into our block. I went to-well‚ let me divide it. I went to an all-black grade school-primary school‚ and we moved into the Hyde Park area when I was 11‚ I guess‚ or 12‚ and I~ to an integrated high school‚ Hyde Park in Chicago.

Yeager: What year was that?

Stewart: I entered high school in 1952.

Yeager: And they'd already started integrating the highschools.

Stewart: That's right.

Yeager: Now‚ were you one of the few black students in yourhigh school?

Stewart: I was. Well‚ we were a small minority at that time.

Yeager: Smaller than you were later at Grinnell?

Stewart: No‚ larger than we were at Grinnell. When I was a student at Grinnell I think there were only three blacks at Grinnell. I would say at Hyde Park we were about 15 to 20 percent of the student population when I was there.

Yeager: Can you give me your parents' political affiliation?

Stewart: Both Democrats.

Yeager: And your religious affiliation?

Stewart: I grew up in a Congregational Church‚ what is todaythe United Church of Christ.

Yeager: How did you choose Grinnell‚ and what were yourfirst reactions‚ and your parents' reactions?

Stewart: It was my parents' decision that I come to Grinnell. Because we were an active Congregational Church family we had heard of Grinnell many years and we‚ the family‚ would go to a church camp in the summers. One summer‚ when I was eight or nine y~ars old‚ the then Dean of Men of Grinnell College was at the same summer camp. He became a friend of my parentsand he convinced them then that Grinnell would be the placefor me to go ....

Yeager: Do you remember his name?

Stewart: It'll come back to me‚ because he was Dean of Men when I came to Grinnell. My parents were determined that I attend an integrated college. Most of my‚ to answer the rest of your questions‚ most of my friends were going to black colleges‚ such as Howard‚ or to a public university‚ like the University of Illinois‚ and my parents very much wanted me to have‚ and my sister‚ to have an experience at a small private college that was not predominantly black. And theyinsisted I go to Grinnell.

Yeager: Was there a certain reason?

Stewart: Well‚ they felt this was right at the time of the Supreme Court decision and my parents felt very strongly that we should be part of the new wave of blacks going ~to integrated schools. It was the law of the land and this was where we could get the best education.

Yeager: Were you actively recruited by the College?

Stewart: Not really.

Yeager: Except for this contact with this Dean.

Stewart: That!s right. Though we did‚ in fact‚ it's funny.I've seen him recently. There was a man in Chicago by the name of Al Sequera‚ who ran a Grinnell office in Chicago and he did follow up and contact my parents to see if they were‚ in fact‚ going to follow through with this discussion with the then Dean of Men. The Dean of Men at that time was Harry Grace‚ a psychologist‚ I believe.

Yeager: You talk about this man... -3

Stewart: Yes‚ he did a lot of following up‚ and he talked with me at some length when I was at the age to go to college‚ so whereas‚ I was not recruited in that my parents actively sought to have me come here ...

Yeager: What was the name of your high school?

Stewart: Hyde Park.

Yeager: Hyde Park High School? At that time‚ though‚ Grinnell administration‚ Grinnell admissions were not making an active attempt to recruit black students.

Stewart: Not as such‚ I would say.

Yeager: What personal and occupational goals did you set for yourself once arriving at Grinnell?

Stewart: I planned to be a minister.

Yeager: What were your primary concerns as a student?

Stewart: Well‚ that's a broad question.

Yeager: Social?

Stewart: My major concern was academic. I had not had the strongest high school record-my first year pr two at Hyde Park I really floundered a bit and my last two years were very good‚happily‚ and strong‚ so I was prepared for college. But I was determined to do well academically at Grinnell.

Yeager: What about politically?

Stewart: I don't think I had a political instinct in me. I was very apolitical.

Yeager: If you previously lived in an urban environment‚ as you did‚ was it difficult to adjust to Grinnell's rural setting?

Stewart: Not at all. It was an easy thing for me to do. In fact‚ it was almost a relief. I don't think I fully answered your last question‚ your previous question‚ in that my friends thought I was crazy to ~ome to Grinnell that I'd be isolated socially and that being in a rural area would just be veryunpleasant. In fact‚ I found as part of the attraction here the tranquility and a sense of openness. Very satisfying. So I didn't miss the city at all. It was a nice-I always knew I could go back to the city. But this was just a very different experience. My parents had both grown up in small towns also‚ and are sort of rural-even today; their “small-townness“ and their outlook. I as a child often went back with them to visit familyin western Pennsylvania‚ so I had a sense of my own roots being a small town‚ even though I'd grown up in Chicago.

Yeager: Were you ever lonely or homesick at Grinnell?

Stewart: Not once. Not once.

Yeager: Did you go home during vacations?

Stewart: Yes. And my parents came here often. They loved Grinnell. In fact‚ at my tenth reunion‚ my parents came as well. They really love this college and I was not homesick‚ ever. Plus‚ after I got here‚ friends of mine from Chicago started to come‚ Jimmy Simmons and Jimmy Lowry-I was sort of‚ I guess‚ the pioneer.

Yeager: Now you came in what year?

Stewart: I came in January of 1956. I'd finished grade school a semester early‚ I was ahead of myself. And I finished Grinnell in three and a half years because I did not want to finish again in the middle of the year. So I took extra couTses and so forth and was able to finish in June of •59.

Yeager: How many other black students attended Grinnell during the period of your enrollmant?

Stewart: The entire time?

Yeager: Yes‚ and if you can name names ...

Stewart: Well‚ when I came here‚ there were only two other blacks‚ Albert Sampson‚ who grew up in Chicago and grew up in my church even-his family -was another influence on my family...

Yeager: ...in coming to Grinnell?

Stewart: Yes. Albert Sampson and A.lpha.nette White‚ whose uncle‚ Randall Morgan‚ is now on this board. Those were the only two blacks. Oh‚ wait a minute. There was a black fellow from Gary‚ Indiana‚ I cannot remember his name‚ but he flunked out‚ unfortunately‚ he wasn't here very long. I don't remember his name. But I remember distinctly those two. But then‚ the following year‚ Herbie Hancock came and Jimmy and Jimmy and Allison Davis and Ron Galt‚ and ...

Yeager: Now‚ are many of these people coming from the Chicagoarea?

Stewart: Yes‚ and they're all friends.

Yeager: Oh‚ they all come from the same community‚ or what?

Stewart: Well‚ we were all-I cannot take full credit for bringing them here‚ but because they were all friends of mine from childhood who took an interest in Grinnell once one of their friends came. Now‚ in the case of the two Jimmys‚ Simmons and Lowry‚ I think they were actively recruited from Francis Parker by the athletic team-staff. -5 But there was a handful‚ there were three of us. My first semester here there were three black students at Grinnell College.

Yeager: Now‚ had you heard anything about the Hampton program that had gone on earlier?

Stewart: Yes. But I heard about it when I got here.

Yeager: But it was over by the time you got here?

Stewart: Yes.

Yeager: What kind of interaction did you have with the other black students? Did you organize into any sort of social group?

Stewart: Nope. It was unheard of.

Yeager: Why was that unheard of at the time?

Stewart: Well‚ how do you organize three people?

Yeager: Well‚ not necessarily a formal group‚ ...was there an informal kind of com‚'raderie between the three of you?

Stewart: Well‚ we saw each other...of course‚ but it was that-just very informal and easy com_p-aderie. It was no big deal. I mean‚ I came knowing I was coming to a predominantly white institution. I had visited‚ and ..I guessthe other thing is that if I had wanted the other‚ I would have gone to a predominantly black college‚ or fought to go to one. I grew up in a very secure black community‚ I mean there was no question about who I was or what I was to do and so forth‚ and I always knew it was a community I could plug back into anytime I wanted. And Grinnell was sort of the world‚ and so I-and my values and objectives were set so that I was here not to be active socially and politisally‚I was here to study.

Yeager: Do you have any unusual experiences that you had with any of these students?

Stewart: The black students?

Yeager: Yes‚ any anecdotes‚ things that would give us a little insight.

Stewart: Well‚ I don't know. There were times when the few of us would just come together-and again‚ it was very informal-just out of a sense or a need for some togetherness I guess‚ I mean we were friends‚ we had friends in common back home‚ etcetera‚ and it was just sort of a natural thing to gravitate to one another on occasion. -6

Yeager: DU.you perceive that the other students had difficulty in adjusting?

Stewart: The white students?

Yeager: No‚ the other black students.

Stewart: Not that group‚ no. That was not the case. Then again‚ after a few years‚ as more students came‚ but--no‚ I want to take that back. I think AlPMnette White was lonely. She was the single black woman there‚ and I think $he had some problems dating‚ and I think that was a problem.

Yeager: Did you have any white roomates?

Stewart: Yes‚ I did.

Yeager: Was there a difficult adjustment for either of you?

Stewart: For either of the roomates? I don't know-you'llhave to ask them. If they found it awkward‚ they never told me. I do remember one‚ when one roomate arrived my first semester‚ and his mother brought him in the room and saw me I think she was sort of taken aback for a moment‚ but they were a Minnesota family and‚ I think‚ very liberal‚ and I think her surprise and shock passed very quickly. And they did not pull their son out of Grinnell.

Yeager: There was an earlier anecdote of a Dean of Women writing a family ahead of time informing the family that they were going to have a black family. It gives us an insight into the attitude of the administration.

Stewart: Oh‚ I'll give you an insight into the attitude of the administration after my-I had been here‚ my three close friends Jimmy Simmons‚ Jimmy Lowry and Allison Davis were all coming to Grinnell the following year and the administration informed them that they were all to live together‚ and their parents were all ·friends of my parents and their mothers called my mother and said “Well‚ what is this-segregation at Grinnell. Our sons have been automatically told that they are to live together in Smith Hall.“ So there was a great protest and I wrote to Howard Bowen and said “Why are myfriends being segregated?“ I immediately got an answer saying it was an accident and then the fellows got new room assignments in various dorms. But then they decided theywanted to live together! And so‚ they ended up living together anyway‚ but at their own choice‚ and that's the point.Rather than having it compulsory that they live together‚ once it was their own free will at work‚ they did choose to live together.

Yeager: Did the women live in the same dorm also?

Stewart: No‚ they were dispersed.

Yeager: It's kind of interesting that it's Smith Hall‚ because in a period back in the twenties about seven or eight black students came in and they lived in Smith Hall.

Stewart: Oh really? So there was a tradition. Interesting.

Yeager: I don't know if there's any connection.

Stewart: Well‚ I don't know. That's an interesting observation. I lived in Clark. Herbie Hancock lived in Clark‚ and Albert Sampson lived in Clark.

Yeager: Now were you assigned those rooms or did you choose those rooms?

Stewart: I was assigned initially‚ but we were never living together.

Yeager: So did you perceive any college housing policy for blaqk students? Were you encouraged or discouraged from livfng with other black students or with white students?

Stewart: Well‚ it was never an issue. When I first arrived I had two white roomates‚ and then‚ of course‚ it was freedom of choice. We drew rooms‚ and I never had a black roomate.

Yeager: How did white students react to the presence of black students‚ and as they began to increase during the period of your enrollment at Grinnell?

Stewart: Now remember‚ they hadn't increased very much. I graduated in '59‚ and there were two blacks in my graduating class‚ another-a black woman who transferred into Grinnell I guess about my sophomore or junior year.

Yeager: Do you know her name?

Stewart: Yes‚ Claire Marie Colbert‚ from St. Louis. I think we were in such-our numbers were so small still‚ in 1959‚ that it wasn't even an issue.

Yeager: From your recollection‚ had most of the white students you'd come across had previous experiences with blacks?

Stewart: No. Just the opposite. I think most of them had never had experiences with blacks.

Yeager: So you were a novelty.

Stewart: That's right. That says it all.

Yeager: Did white students ever confront you or discuss beingblack-ask questions about it?

Stewart: Yes. But not in a hostile or a-not very often and not in a confronting way‚ if you will. It was a-I think that•s one of the reasons I so thoroughly enjoyed my years at Grinnell‚ in that‚ you know‚ everything was so relaxed‚ you didn't know who was rich and who was poor‚ you didn't know anything. Everyone seemed to take everyone else on face value. If you were a good person you got along and soon you recognized who the asses were. And it was just-we did have‚ mean with friends‚ and it usually came after a certain repport was reached-and ~ou were really talking to a friend‚ often I would volunteer or my black friends would volunteer something about the race issue. But we were-it was in the era‚ you see‚ it's before the real movement‚ and we were beginning to get-we had very liberal professors. I mean‚ I had my mentor here was a fellow by the name of .Fletcher‚ inthe Political Science Department‚ and Fletch actively went out to recruit-pardon me‚ to bring blacks to Gri:r‚nell to speak. I heard some great black speeches here‚ and had seminars with blacks‚ but it was all at the initiative of professors who were aware of the changes going on in the society.

Yeager: Who were some of the black speakers that he brought in? Do you remember?

Stewart: Oh‚ people like John Hope Franil -a great black historian‚ Saunders Reading--who was in American Literature. Those are the two who come to mind. But there were many others.

Yeager: You said earlier that an all-white environment didn't cause problems for your cultural identity.

Stewart: It wasnit even an issue.

Yeager: You firmly established yourself...

Stewart: I thought I had‚ yes‚ and I also knew that Grinnell was but a passing-I knew I wa::m t t going to be here forever‚ One came here for a purpose‚ and that purpose‚ as far as I was concernedi was being fulfilled. Academically‚ it was just a great experience. And I was at home a.t ahristmas and summers and back into a predominantly black social situation‚ w.ith my family and church and so forth‚ and so I didn• t mix them. I mean it was .. ‚‚

Yeager: To what degree did social interaction take place between black and white students? Was interracial dating taboo at Grinnell at that time?

Stewart: No‚ it was not.

Yeager: Did you find that an unusual situation from your experience in Chicago?

Stewart: Well‚ remember I went to an integrated high school. It was beginning to happen in my junior and senior years in high school. And I had also gone to predominantly white summer camps‚ and so I found it a very natural and easy adjustment. -9

Yeager: Can you tell me what kind of extra-curricular activities you were involved in?

Stewart: Oh‚ a number of them. Student government-veryactive‚ YMCA‚ Board of Religion‚ International Affairs Club‚ Glee Club and Scarleteers-which I guess they no longer have.

Yeager: In the past‚ the YMCA and Board of Religion have been involved in promoting or teaching about human rights at Grinnell. In your period at Grinnell‚ did either the YMCA or the Board of Religion sponsor events or get involved in early Civil Rights?

Stewart: Did not. That's interesting. They ought to have.

Yeager: The Board of Religion brought the Hampton students to Grinnell. They sponsored that program.

Stewart: Really? No‚ I didn't even hear mention of it. We were largely responsible for organizing worship services. We were also-we interviewed Howard Burkle when he first came to campus.

Yeager: All right. Glee Club‚ SGA‚ YMCA‚ Board of Religion. Did you feel discouraged from participating on the extracurricular activities on account of race?

Stewart: No.

Yeager: Were any school activities restricted from black students?

Stewart: No.

Yeager: Many alums have suggested that Grinnell is insulated or isolated‚ has insulated or isolated students from the real world. Did you feel insulated or isolated at Grinnell.

Stewart: Both-and loved it.

Yeager: Were you aware of national events taking placeoutside of Grinnell?

Stewart: Barely. You see‚ in that sense‚ maybe we were too insulated and isolated. We followed-I mean‚ we had a number of “coffee hours“ on Cuba‚ for example‚ when Fidel Castro was just coming to power‚ that was my junior or senior year‚and we were trying to reach out to that world. I have longhad an interest in international affairs. In our International Affairs Club we were reaching out-I was President of the International Affairs Club. For instance‚ we brought an unknown assistant professor from Harvard here to talk about nuclear warfare‚ his name was Henry Kissinger. We were trying to find out about the world‚ but we were doing it intellectually. We had no feeling that we ought to be doing something.Grinnell was a very traditional academic environment in those days‚ and the thought of marching or protesting in those days don't think occurred to any of us. -10

Yeager: So you were also in the International Affairs Club?

Stewart: Yes‚ that was sort of my mainstay‚ as a matter of fact‚

Yeager: Were any other black students in that organization?

Stewart: No.

Yeager: In the early period‚ the twenties‚ the Cosmopolitan Club was the locus for black students.

Stewart: Cosmopolitan Club?

Yeager: Was the same as the International Affairs Club later. How did these national events ... some early court cases were going on‚ mostly court cases during your period-King hadn't quite come to power yet.

Stewart: Oh no‚ not at all.

Yeager: Were you aware those things? Especially Chicago‚ were you getting mail from your parents which heightened you awareness in any way to what was going on outside?

Stewart: No‚ not really. I mean‚ we of the foment beginning in the South. •54‚ there was another decision in' Eisenhower sending troops into were aware of some Supreme Court was in ; the big event was When was that r56‚ I think. In many ways‚ there was more action nationally than locally‚ I had a deep interest in what I then understood to the developing world. I did my senior honors project on India‚ for example‚ because that's where-I was interested in revolution and change‚ and followed what happened in India very closely. Very little was being written about Africa those days‚ but it was beginning. Ghana became independent what‚ in '58‚ and so-c _;Hungary was a big issue in those days. The Russians coming in and crushing the Hungarian Revolution--that was •57. But we had little sense of issues‚ I mean‚ this was the complacent Eisenhower period~ remember that. It was just another era.

Yeager: Were connections made between Civil Rights for blacks and the International front?

Stewart: I think so‚ yes. I think that was-I think it was being made in a very subtle‚ almost unconscious way. But those of us who were~ as blacks‚ thinking about and seeking to know more about change in what we now call the third world@ we did: it instinctively as a minority.

Yeager: That opinion was forced or was not enforced in the International Affairs Club?

Stewart: I don't think it was ever articulated. But I was aware of it.

Yeager: Martin Luther King was actually beginning by the time you were a senior.

Stewart: I'd heard of him.

Yeager: How did you view his activities?

Stewart: With curiousity. ~eager: Can I ask you‚ who did your parents support in the Civil Rights movement which occurred in the next five years- Malcolm X‚ Martin Luther King--did they take an interest?

They never took an interest in Malcolm X. Martin Luther King‚ very much so.

Yeager: How about yourself?

Stewart: King. I never understood Malcolm X--though having read his biography many years later‚ I found it fascinating‚ but he was not out.... I mean‚ King was an integrationist and a pumanitarian and so forth‚ and Malcolm X seemed to be just different.

Yeager: What black authors did you read (if any) at Grinnell? If yes‚ did these authors influence you in any way?

Stewart: Well‚ I think I read a number of black authors. I read Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man while I was here (the first time)‚ on my own. But I recall little that we might today call black sudies--there certainly was no effort to---well‚ the kinds of courses. I took. I didn't take much literature‚ for example‚ I'm sorry now. I took Political Science‚ Economics‚ Sociology. We studied in Sociology black-related issues.

Yeager: Was John Burma in the Sociology Department when you were there?

Stewart: I don't remember.

Yeager: As a student‚ did you feel any obligation to participate in Civil Rights.

Stewart: Well‚ there weren't any organized efforts at the time.

Yeager: I guess students didn't get involved until a little later in that.

Stewart: That's right‚ I'm telling you‚ the fifties‚ brother‚ ...

Yeager: Well‚ these questions have been designed to allow for a range of years. Were you involved in any biracial organizations‚ politi~al organizations‚ like NAACP-Grinnell chapter.

Stewart: I don't think we had a chapter. My parents belonged‚ but I don't think I did.

Yeager: I think it might have died the year before you came.

Stewart: Is that right?

Yeager: A townsperscn had started it.

Stewart: Is that right? Interesting. An anecdote-let me give you an anecdote‚ to show you my level of naivete at the time. I think John Price was in it. We did a show‚ I guess it was my sophomore or junior year‚ entitled “Of Thee I Sing.“ I didn•t do very much in theater here‚ but that was just for the heck of it‚ for whoever wants to go out for a play. I got the part of a senator from the South‚ had to wear a white suit and a big hat and speak with a drawl~ and so forth. And I brought the house down. It was so funny. I thought “I must be a marvelous actor!“ It was several-it was many years later that I was with some Grinnellians and we were reminiscing‚ and someone said that “the funniest thing that happened at Grinnell was the year Stewart played Senator Claghorn‚ or whatever his name was--who could have imagined a black senator from the South.“ It sudd:enly occurred to :me that was the humor·-it wasn't my acting‚ how well I did it at all. But that was the humor‚ you see. But I guess I was so raceless or naive or whatever‚ that I-it was just a part for me. A-rid the irony of playing at that time a senator as a black‚ was just amazing. But it never dawned on me‚ it never occurred to me. But that's just my naivete.

Yeager: Can you name the most positive and the most negative personal experience at Grinnell?

Stewart: The most positive? Really the most positive was my relationship with certain faculty members‚ like Harold 1 Flet.cher in Political Science‚ John Kleinschmidt in Frenc~~ with whom I always stay. He's now retired from the faculty‚ but I always stay with him when I'm here. To find smart‚ caring faculty-and John Price again. John was my close buddy when I was here. We used to arrange evenings with our professors‚ bring them into the dormitory and sit. We weren't allowed to have wine and beer in the dormitory in those days‚ so we'd sit and drink cokes or something and just talk for the evening about ideas. That was just for me a turn on. It was a high of the best kind. So I would say that's the-that was the most positive. Most negative-well‚ there wasn't a hell of a lot that was negative. But I gli‚ess as a student‚ my constant fear at Grinnell was not having enough money to stay here and finish.

Yeager: Did they provide financial assistance?

Stewart: you one. Yes‚ I was on a scholarship. I really can't tell

Yeager: No negative?

Stewart: I really can't.

Yeager: I guess it just didn't stick in your mind after all these years-it wasn't that negative.

Stewart: I'm sure I had negative-there were times of unhappiness and so forth‚ but just nothing that I would-that bears mentioning.

Yeager: Who had the most personal influence on your life as a student?

Stewart: A professor-Harold Fletcher.

Yeager: Did you have any students that had a profound influence on you?

Stewart: Yes. He's now dead. A felloe-Gordy Hunt was his name. Gordy and I never roomed together. We lived in Clark Hall‚ and I was his campaign manager when he ran for student government president. Really profound effect in that he was from a small town in Iowa‚ had never known any blacks-our backgrounds-his parents had not gone to college‚ he was just smarter than heck. And I think it was with Gordy that I had the most penetrating discussions about race and class and meaning of life‚ etcetera. And I think he reinforced a sense that I had that regardless of where we were from or who we were or whatever‚ we were basically human beings and when you cut away all of the crap and color difference‚ you know‚ we're all pretty much the same. He gave me confidence in the sense that that's what life is really all about.

Yeager: He won the SGA presidency?

Stewart: Yes. The girl he was dating was secretary‚ I was treasurer‚ they got married in a small town in Illinois‚ I was in their wedding-it was a very close relationship. And he died a few years ago--he went on to law school after a while. But Gordy Hunt. And when I think back‚ I had many good friends‚ I think‚ some of who-with whom I still stay in touch. But Gordy was really a meaningful relationship.

Yeager: Did you make any long-lasting friendships?

Stewart: Well‚ Gordy‚ but he died. And a few others. John Boyles from the class of 1 61‚ with whom I talked all the time: and John Price‚ who brought me on the Grinnell Board and I was be~t man at his wedding. The women who were white whom I dated :t don't see any more-; they're all married‚ happilymarried. •

Yeager: Did you keep any long lasting endships with the few black students?

Stewart: Oh‚ all of them. But we were-most of us‚ the one.s who were here when I was here‚ we were already friends‚

Yeager: What reaction did the town of Grinnell have to sence of black students?

Stewart: Well‚ I think we were so few my day that it was not like years later. I think curiousity more than anything‚ I mean‚ my big confrontation was when I went in to get a haircut and-but it was a nice barber and it took weeks to get up enough nerve to go in and get a haircut. I looked at him and I said “Have you ever cut hair like this?“ He said “NO‚ I haven•t‚ but I'll work with you and we can fix something up.“ Anyway‚ it worked out and turned out to be my barber for the rest of my time here‚ But I think just curiousity‚ but again‚ we were so few‚ it was no big deal.

Yeager: Did you know any of the black town members?

Yes. Were there then?

Yeager: Yes‚ there were.

Stewart: I had no idea. I never met a single one.

Yeager: '.I'here may have only been one or two families. Stwwart: Is that right?

Aluha.nette White is one of the people who did spend time over there.

Stewart: She never told me. I had no idea‚

Yeager: Did you know the names of any black alumni when you came to Grinnell?

Stewart: Oh yes. Andy Billingsly was best known to me.

Yeager: Any others?

Stewart: I don't recall. No‚ I don't think so.

Yeager: Can you please elaborate on your experience once leaving Grinnell: graduate work‚ work experience‚ achievements‚ occupation‚ marriage‚ children.

Stewart: You want of that? Can I do it two minutes'?

Yeager: Yes.

Stewart: I'll send you my resume--it's all on there.

Yeager: Okay. One last question: Were you involved in churches at Grinnell? Were you a member of a particular church?

Stewart: No‚ I went to our chapel here.

Yeager: Were you happy at Grinnell?

Stewart: Very. I• send you my resume which literally traces all my graduate school and job activities and so on.

Yeager: You're the fourth Grinnell graduate to be the president of a black college;

Stewart: Really? The fourth Grinnell graduate to be president of a black college? Other than Andy‚ who are the other two?

Yeager: Actu~lly‚ including Andy‚ that would be five.

Stewart: Really. Well‚ who are the others?

Yeager: Prank Woodworth was the president of....