The Black Experience at Grinnell College Through Collected Oral History and Documents, 1863–1954

Stuart Yeager: I'm going to begin by quickly reading to you some of the data that I've collected on the period that you were at Grinnell just to give you an idea or to remind you what you went through. In 1958 the median family income for whites was $5‚300; for non-whites‚ $2‚700. Negro unemployment was 14.4%‚ the highest in eleven years at that time so it was a very pressing problem. There was resistance to southern voter registration. There was a rise in the KKK activities. In Munroe‚ North Carolina‚ two Negro boys‚ aged eight and nine‚ were sentenced to reformatory school because they had been kissed by a white girl. This kind of stuff.

Jocelyn Williams Anderson: That's the time.

Yeager: Martin Luther King stabbed in the chest in Harlem. That was in 1958. And the beginning of sit-in campaigns in 1959. And voter registration drives and the resistance to them.

Anderson: There were some sit-ins in '58 too‚ at least in the St. Louis area where I grew up.

Yeager: That's where you're from. That's where I want to start. I want to start by asking you some questions about your family background. Your parents' occupations‚ your home town environment.

Anderson: At that time or now?

Yeager: At that time.

Anderson: My mother was a housewife. There were ten children in the family at that time. My father held two jobs. He was head houseman at the Hotel Chase and he worked for the YMCA. No‚ YWCA. I'm the oldest of those ten children.

Yeager: You were the oldest of the ten children. Can you tell a little bit about the nature of your home in St. Louis‚ the nature of the community‚ the nature of your high school that you attended?

Anderson: O.K. We lived in Pruittlgoe That's high-rise government subsidized housing kind of thing because there were so many people nobody would rent to us and of course we didn't own our own home. I went to an all-black high school. I ranked in the upper third of my class. What else about my high school? I was involved in clubs and things like that‚ the drama society‚ the photography club‚ a majorette. I can't think of anything else about it. It was a long time ago.

Yeager: Yeah. It is quite a while.

Anderson: Did I get all those things you asked?

Yeager: Your parents' political affiliation and your religious affiliation?

Anderson: My parents were Baptists. Gosh‚ I don't know what their political leanings were.

Yeager: Do you remember their going to participate in anything political? Vote?

Anderson: They voted always. But what their political leanings were I really couldn't tell you. That was sort of a private thing. It still is. I don't think I could tell you now.

Yeager: Moving towards Grinnell‚ how did you choose Grinnell? What were your friends' reactions to your choosing Grinnell being from the city?

Anderson: I chose Grinnell primarily because of their science department. At that time‚ I contemplated going into pre-med. Grinnell has always had a very strong and well-respected science department. I had a girl friend‚ my best girlfriend‚ who was already a student here.

Yeager: What was her name?

Anderson: Shelby Patricia Freeman. You might have found her. She didn't stay very long. She was here. I started in Januaryby the way‚ which was very‚ very different from starting in September. I graduated from high school in January and I came on here to Grinnell so I was here for the spring semester. Nobody was really that surprised that I was coming to Grinnell. Very few people even knew what Grinnell was or where it was. Iowa is very‚ very foreign to us living in the city. I wanted to go .to a small school‚ and Grinnell was a small school. The student body‚ I guess‚ was barely larger than our graduating class. So it was a small school.

Yeager: Can you tell me in St. Louis were things very‚ very segregated during that time?

Anderson: Yes. Very much so. The high schools were segregated. I guess I might have been part of the last truly segregated class to graduate. They were starting to integrate and there was a lot of feeling about the integration that was going on. I was involved in some things after school that had me aware of the white population so coming to Grinnell was not totally foreign to me. I did know that there were whites in the world‚ and I related to them. I was not afraid of them. So I had that advantage.

Yeager: But the rules were different at Grinnell. Moving freely. Living with whites. Was that different to you?

Anderson: It was simply that I was leaving home. I didn't feel that it was a racial kind of thing. I can't really say why‚ but it really didn't seem that threatening. I guess because I had a sense of identity‚ a sense of who I was and I was going away to school. No big deal --- I was going away to school. That's pretty much the way I felt. And then I did have somebody here that I knew.

Yeager: Yeah. That's right. So you weren't alone.

Anderson: She was my roommate the first semester.

Yeager: She was a black student here at Grinnell.

Anderson: Yes.

Yeager: Were you actively recruited? Or was it mostly through a contact?

Anderson: It was not an active thing. And I was looking around for schools to go to. I got a partial scholarship to go to Grinnell and don't ask me what it was because I don't remember it -- But it sounded like a good place to go especially since Pat was here. It was that kind of a recruitment kind of thing. She was there. And then it sounded like a good place to go.

Yeager: What happened when she left? Were you miserable?

Anderson: No. I didn't miss her at all. We're not close friends.

Yeager: Not anymore.

Anderson: No. Not after being roommates. A lot of girls go through that. But I think that had a lot to do with it. We grew in different ways. We had different interests‚ and we simply continued to grow in different ways.

Yeager: How did your parents react? How did your friends react at home to your going to Grinnell? Did I ask you that?

Anderson: Well‚ my parents thought it was great. That's where I wanted to go to school. That was fine. There was no problem. My friends reacted sort of strange after that first year. Because one of the things we talked about -- Grinnell was going through a change in the dorm set-up. They had freshmen‚ sophomore‚ and those kinds of dorms. And the year that I came in they started integrating the dorms. And I went home talking about integrated dorms --

Yeager: You mean coed?

Anderson: No. I mean integrated by classes. We were talking about integrated dorms and my friends thought I was talking about a racial kind of thing because there were only seventeen black students on campus‚ not seventeen‚ fourteen. And there were seven males and seven females. And they wondered where did you stay‚ where did you live before. I was talking about integration as far as classes. Integration was a very big word‚ a very big thing during that time. Many people wondered why I wanted to go to Grinnell when it was not a black college since most of my friends who went to college went to Fisk or Howard or things like that which were southern colleges. I even considered a southern college but I was very happy that I didn't go and I still am.

Yeager: What were your primary concerns at Grinnell? What did you think about if you can think back that far?

Anderson: My grades.

Yeager: Your grades.

Anderson: Yes. Grades were very high on my lis¬Ω because I had made good grades; and when I first came to Grinnell‚ I did not make good grades and that was really upsetting to me. I got my first C at Grinnell and that was miserable. I even made a D. And then I finally made an F which was shattering. But I've learned one thing --- when they're getting ready to go to college I'll say‚ You might make an F but it's not the end of the world. You can pick up and go on from there. Which is something I wish someone had told me. I really do.

Yeager: You had no counseling‚ anyone who --- did you go to anyone?

Anderson: No. Not really. There wasn't anyone to go to. I had an advisor who I think was as lost as I was. What do you do? Supposedly I was different. It was an experience for both of us. I had a gym teacher that I was much closer to that I could talk to about a lot of things.

Yeager: Who was that? Do you remember?

Anderson: Anna May Wack.

Yeager: Anna May Wack.

Anderson: I believe that's what her name was. I got rid of alot of the tensions I had through sports. So that helped a lot. I was involved in The Players organization which was a drama --- and I enjoyed that very much. The Uncle Sam's Club -- I couldn't remember the name of it. It's a Y club. Those were things that I had done before so I continued doing them. The Players was pretty much my salvation. Because I could get involved in doing things with them and get rid of some of the loneliness that you have when you go away from home.

Yeager: Did you feel isolated at Grinnell?

Anderson: Not especially.

Yeager: Not especially.

Anderson: No.

Yeager: That's surprising. Most people have said yes. It's not a city -- it's a rural --

Anderson: I sort of enjoyed being able to walk or ride my bicycle. I made some friends in Players and Uncle Sam's Club so that I wasn't really alone. They weren't black. But then my friends had not been black all of the time. So it really didn't make any difference. I came from a large family. You don't have to have friends that aren't your brothers and sisters. So I was away from them anyway. So that was the thing.

Yeager: You say fourteen black students were attending Grinnell at the time. What kind of interaction did you have with the other black students? Did you interact?

Anderson: Oh‚ sure. My roommate of course was black. I dated a couple of the guys. At that time Grinnell had a system that was very formalized and you did particular things at particular times. Like we had date-dinners. So you went to dinner or somebody came and had dinner. You had to take part in that.

Yeager: Oh really?

Anderson: Yes. You had to do that. Everybody was doing those kinds of things. So you had to do those. And then I was involved with the radio station. And a couple of the guys were involved with the radio station. So there was another outlet and other people you were seeing. So I was involved in things.

Yeager: No one you met that was terribly close then? You didn't meet your husband here?

Anderson: No. OK‚ that had already been decided before I came to Grinnell. Which may have been why I didn't feel that isolated. I was not --- I had a male friend so the guys that I met on campus were just passing through kinds of things. One of the --- the guy I remember most from Grinnell was not black. We worked together in the radio station and in Players. So that kind of thing. I remember him quite a bit. But then he had a girl friend at home so we could sit down and be miserable talking about our people that weren't here.

Yeager: Did you ever have any white roommates during your experience here?

Anderson: No.

Yeager: You always had black roommates.

Anderson: No. I only had one roommate. Then I had a single.

Yeager: Oh‚ you had a single. O.K. Was it difficult to adjust? Were you an outgoing person at the time? Or were you rather shy?

Anderson: I guess you'd say I was shy. I would think that I was. I don't know. Pretty much I guess I was shy. I would think so.

Yeager: So was it difficult for you to make friends here at all? Did people approach you?

Anderson: O.K. We also had a big sister - little sister relationship where you were assignedi to an upperclassman and that upperclassman was primarily responsible for your socialization within Grinnell.

Yeager: And that seemed to work well with you.

Anderson: Yeah. Pretty much so. I mean I met people. I got to know people. Coming in in January‚ it's hard‚ but it was easy because I was the only new person so a lot of people saw to it that I was plugged into things. It might have beendifferent had I come here in September.

Yeager: Do you remember who your big sister was?

Anderson: Betty Gough.

Yeager: G-o-1

Anderson: No. G-o-u-g-h I think it is. I think that's the proper spelling.

Yeager: I asked you about dating. Interracial dating --- was it taboo in those days?

Anderson: No. It wasn't taboo. It wasn't encouraged but it did happen. There just was no way around it.

Yeager: Yes. No experiences. I guess you already had your boy friend at home and ---

Anderson: I went to parties with Roger but not as far as --- I guess I went to dances too. I guess you'd say I had some interracial dates but I never thought about it one way or the other.

Yeager: As it moved down towards the '6- --- I've been interviewing people down at the '68-'69 --- it's much more important.

Anderson: Right. Well‚ there just weren't that many people on campus. Who was in my class? Herbie Hancock was in my class. The Jims ---¬∑ --- Lowrv and Simmons were in my class. And I think that was about all. There were a couple of guys that were ahead of me. But they didn't do any of the things that I did so it was sort of silly for me to date them. Roger was there and I'd want to go to a dance or we'd go to a dance or if he wanted --- you see you had to have a date so Roger and I would usually go.

Yeager: This is the friend from the radio company?

Anderson: Yes. And that was the extent of it. I guess you'd call it a date.

Yeager: Do you keep in contact with him still?

Anderson: I have not since I left here. Not at all. I don't keep up with but one person from Grinnell and that's Claramarie Cannon. Oh‚ yeah‚ there's another one. I keep up with Louise Howe too but she's in Chicago. She was not a black student. She was a very good friend though.

Yeager: Were you aware of the activities going on outside of Grinnell? The activities of Martin Luther King just beginning? Some of the other activities? Some students made the comment that being at Grinnell was an insulated experience.

Anderson: Yes‚ it was insulated but I did communicate with people at home. And‚ living in St. Louis where we had sit-ins and these kinds of things and some of the people that I had left at home were doing those things so I was aware of them. Probably more than if I'd lived somewhere else.

Yeager: Did you participate in any of these activities yourself?

Anderson: No.

Yeager: On campus did you --- were you particularly vocal at that point about some of these issues ---

Anderson: I've never been very vocal. Probably now more than I've ever been.

Yeager: Oh‚ really.

Anderson: I had second thoughts about coming to this particular thing because it's called black recruitment and I had some thoughts about that. I see myself first as a person‚ who happens to be black‚ who happens to have attended Grinnell‚ who happens to be a woman‚ but primarily I'm me.

Yeager: Yes. When you went back to school‚ went back home during break --- Did you go home during break?

Anderson: Yes. Always.

Yeager: Your friends were involved in these activities?

Anderson: Some of them were.

Yeager: Some of them were. But you didn't really go along or you were not --- Were you a political type person? Were you interested in political activity?

Anderson: No.

Yeager: What were your interests generally?

Anderson: Reading. Classical music. Sewing. Art museums surely. Those are things I very much enjoy.

Yeager: Did students react in any way to your being black at Grinnell?

Anderson: Yeah. Sometimes it was rather interesting. Dorm experiences were the most unusual because there were questions about why you did things and how you did them. Always there was a differentness because of the way you did things or thought about things.

Yeager: For instance. Do you have any examples of differentness?

Anderson: At that time everybody was wearing straight hair. And that was very‚ very different because my hair is not straight and it wasn't. Just getting your hair straightened made a big difference‚ the method.

Yeager: And you didn't.

Anderson: No. We straightened hair. It was an area that was amusing I think to both of us‚ both the whites as well as the blacks.

Yeager: Did you have any views I mean‚ you said you were aware of some of the things that were going on outside of the country. I don't mean to say outside of the country‚ but outside of Grinnell. Were you a member of any --- for instance‚ you were a member of the Uncle Sam's Club. What was that club actually?

Anderson: It was a Y club where we went down -- and they called it Uncle Sam's Club -- downtown in Grinnell where we worked with the kids from the community playing games sort of like Tri-Hi-Y‚ that kind of thing. And it was affiliated with the church but I cannot remember. I think it was the Congregational Church were the sponsors. We'd go down and we spent two afternoons a week so it was a release from the studying and this kind of thing. I learned polka there.

Yeager: You learned how to play poker?

Anderson: No. To do the polka.

Yeager: Oh‚ polka. I thought you said poker. At that time was financial aid being given by the college?

Anderson: Yes.

Yeager: It was. Was that one of the inducements to Grinnell for your family?

Anderson: I got scholarship aid so that was primarily --- one of the reasons --- why I came.

Yeager: What authors or people influenced you most at Grinnell?

Anderson: I don't know. I can't think of any at this point. Do you mean people from Grinnell?

Yeager: People from Grinnell‚ people that were very visible‚ national leaders that might have inspired you‚ cultural people --- you were interested in reading --- you must have hhd your favorites.

Anderson: I read anything that came along. Baldwin I enjoyed‚ James Baldwin. You realize that's a long‚ long time ago.

Yeager: So you were reading black authors. Were you making a concerted effort to read black authors?

Anderson: No.

Yeager: No. They just happened to be good novels that came along.

Anderson: It was something that I had read and I enjoyed it. I guess I learned to really appreciate Shakespeare here. I think the instructor's name was Boyd. I'm not sure. It's been a long time. She was an older professor. Her English class that I really enjoyed was Shakespearian Writers. Although I didn't do well in German‚ I became quite fascinated with it and the tenacity that was involved in trying to master it. The things I remember about going to classes at Grinnell are that I learned pretty much what was there but --- it was an enjoyable thing. It was not a frightening thing or things like that. My grades were not the best and I think that's because I didn't fully get into the system before I could really do --- I think the homesickness that I was not aware of ---

Yeager: You were very homesick?

Anderson: I didn't see it as such at the time. Being away was being away. But I think that's an adjustment. I was out of synch with everybody else‚ coming in in the middle and I think that had something to do with it. I wouldn't advise that for anybody. I really wouldn't.

Yeager: Did you write your parents? Dic'l. you keep in contact with your family?

Anderson: Sure. I got a letter twice a week. That was not --

Yeager: You were not totally out of synch.

Anderson: Oh‚ no. I come from a family that's very‚ very close and very supportive in that manner. When you go away to school‚ you get letters. We still do that. I look back and see that it was homesickness. I really didn't realize it was then.

Yeager: Did you feel any obligation at that time -- I guess it is a little bit early but I was going to ask you about any obligation to get involved politically or get involved in any way because these people were raising these issues?

Anderson: No. I didn't see any reason at all to become --- I truly didn't. My feeling then I remember saying that I didn't have to go around telling anybody who I am. By being who I am‚ they can see. And that was really very flaky but I guess that was really the way I felt.

Yeager: Weren't people curious? Were people always asking you about what it's like to be black?

Anderson: Oh‚ no. Not at Grinnell. Nobody would dream of doing that. We were more genteel. I guess that's the only way to say it. You might have been curious but you'd ask questions like What do you like to eat? or How would you do this? Very rarely would anyone come up to you and ask What's it like to be black? You just didn't do that. You might ask what it was like in New York or what it was like in St. Louis but you just wouldn't come out and say --- it was not even popular to say black. You weren't black‚ you were Negro or you were colored. Black was not beautiful at that point and black certainly wasn't in.

Yeager: Did you discuss problems of being a black person --- are you uncomfortable with that word?

Anderson: No‚ it's fine. It doesn't make any difference.

Yeager: Did you and your roommate discuss?

Anderson: There wasn't anything to discuss truly.

Yeager: Then you felt --- you were friends but you didn't feel a commonality that wasn't shared amongst other students because you were black?

Anderson: No.

Yeager: You were just close friends.

Anderson: About the only thing I remember‚ I wanted to join Players because I was a member of the dramatic club when I was in high school1 ‚ and I went and talked to one of the seniors who happened to be black about how you went about joining and she said‚ Well‚ you don't. And I didn't understand that so I went anyway and I joined. And I really didn't have any problem over it. I didn't want to be a star anyway so that didn't cause any problems.

Yeager: Why did she say Don't. Was it because of her views?

Anderson: They weren't going to let me join.

Yeager: Oh‚ really? Was this by design?

Anderson: No. This was her perception of blacks don't join Players.

Yeager: Her own perception.

Anderson: Yes. But I wanted to know why they didn't. And she said‚ You just don't.

Yeager: Who was it? Do you remember the name of the student?

Anderson: Yes. Alphanette White. I did join‚ Players and didn't really have an unpleasant experience that I was aware of. I worked on costumes and enjoyed it very much and felt very much a part of the club.

Yeager: Did black students feel that they were restricted from certain clubs?

Anderson: Yes. I think so. There were some things you didn't try. If you were brave enough to try you could. I mean nobody ever told you you couldn't belong. It was a subtle kind of thing; blacks don't do this and blacks don't do that. It's like freshmen don't join certain things. It was more that kind of thing.

Yeager: What types of things would you say that blacks were not necessarily discouraged from but were shying away from because of that de facto feeling?

Anderson: I can't really think of anything that just stands out. Players was the thing that I wanted to do so I did. The dance club whatever it was‚ was rather difficult to join. My roommate I think left Grinnell because she didn't feel she was a part of that. She very much wanted to dance‚ much more than anything else and she does dance now.

Yeager: She didn't have anyone at home like you had a -- was it a fiance? In St. Louis.

Anderson: Oh‚ right. I really don't know. I don't think so. I don't remember. Really‚ you know.

Yeager: It's been a long time.

Anderson: Dating was not our primary goal in going to Grinnell. That really wasn't the reason you went to school anyway. Being the first generation to go to college --- My mother went but then left to get married. It was important that I go to school. The reason that I stopped was that I perceived that I was quite a drain financially and I could not see doing that.

Yeager: What were the educational backgrounds of your mother and your father?

Anderson: They both had high school educations. My mother went to a year of college.

Yeager: Did she go to a school in St. Louis?

Anderson: No. She went to school in Arkansas. Both my parents grew up in Arkansas.

Yeager: Were you involved in any international students clubs?

Anderson: No.

Yeager: Were you aware of the Hampton -- earlier in the 50's‚ Claramarie Cannon's time and a little earlier‚ Beth Turner's time‚ they had what they called the Hampton Exchange Program.

Anderson: Very vaguely. But just vaguely. And I know that some of the students went to Hampton who were not really comfortable here at Grinnell.

Yeager: What was the college's administration's policy on housing of black students? Was there a policy of some sort when you had fourteen black students? Did they discourage black students from living with white students?

Anderson: I was not really aware of any problem. I understand there were some. But I was not aware of them.

Yeager: I want to read you from I believe it was Beth Turner --- She says‚ Yes. Racism did exist. Elizabeth Turner gives three examples of subtle‚ covert and personal kinds of demeaning actions that are hard to document but all the blacksknow about and experience them. In one case the dean of students wrote my prospective freshman roommate's parents to get their permission to assign a black student to their daughter's room. They were assured the assignment would be changed if they had any objections. Can anyone imagine the dean writing a parent that your daughter's roommate will be Polish but you needn't accept the assignment.

Anderson: At Grinnell at that time. Yes. I could see that really. Grinnell was a very strange place.

Yeager: Was it a strange place?

Anderson: I mean it was‚ I think the world was a strange place. It had nothing to do with black students‚ but we had a student who eloped. Her father was a diplomat. And they couldn't decide who was supposed to call the father and tell him that his daughter had eloped --- what particular protocol. So Grinnell was a strange place. Many of the things that happened to me might have been racial‚ but I didn't see them that way.

Yeager: You weren't aware of them as racial?

Anderson: Probably because I was a strange person. I still don't see a lot of things as being racially motivated and I suppose many of them are. I just don't perceive them that way.

Yeager: Do you see that as something from your background‚ coming out of your background?

Anderson: I guess so. I've been that way all the time.

Yeager: Your parents did not stress the fact that you are a black color‚ a Negro person‚ but that you are just a person?

Anderson: Right. As good as or better than anybody I'd meet. And that's always been the way that I grew up.

Yeager: You were born in what year?

Anderson: 1939.

Yeager: It seems to change drastically when we get to kids who were born in the late forties or early fifties.

Anderson: It probably depends on where you're born. And also about how your parents feel about being black. My growing up‚ I knew about black people. I knew about George Washinqton Carver‚ Mary Mccloud Bethune. All these people were real people to me. They were part of my growing up. I'm always amazed that people didn't know that there were blacks who did constructive positive things. I didn't feel that because I was black I was inferior. And it was unfortunate that everyone wasn't more black. Big deal. I didn't decide --- I made no conscious effort to be black. I was black. Like being a blond or anything else. I realize that thatts not the popular concept‚ but it's a comfortable one for me.

Yeager: Yeah. That's the point. So you did have a black roommate. Did you know any other black students? Were they rooming with black students?

Anderson: I don't know.

Yeager: You don't remember.

Anderson: I really don't know. One of them had to have been because it was one of the related terrible experiences. So she had to have had a black one.

Yeager: Related terrible experience?

Anderson: They didn't get alonq. They had a conflict. But I really was not aware of that. Most of the girls had single rooms.I'm almost positive. Gosh‚ I don't really know. But that's what I remember. I couldn't say for sure. Well there were only seven girls. Pat and I roomed together. Clara had a room by herself. Alpt..anette_ graduated. And Beth. I don't know where Beth roomed.

Yeager: Beth?

Anderson: Yes. Beth graduated ---

Yeager: Beth lived in Haines. Did she room with Alphanette White because they were both from the same ---

Anderson: Could be. I don't know. I really don't remember. I remember Alphanette well and I associated with Alphanette . I didn't really associate with Beth.

Yeager: She must have been a character. She was supposed to come to the ---

Anderson: I know. I was looking forward to seeing her. Just to see if the things I remembered about her were valid.

Yeager: Or if it was just your perception?

Anderson: Right. Well‚ she was a senior when I was a freshman. My goodness‚ you don't associate anyway. Normally you don't.Normally at that time.

Yeager: Were you happy at Grinnell?

Anderson: Mhm. (Yes.)

Yeager: What was the one thing that you remember as being what was the one most positive experience that you had and that you remember about Grinnell? What is the most negative?

Anderson: Well the negative thing is the C I received in freshman English. I guess that was the most traumatic thing that happened to me at Grinnell. I worked very hard on that paper to get a C. It made me very angry.

Yeager: You still remember it almost twenty-five years later?

Anderson: That was definitely --- Gosh‚ I don't know.

Yeager: What was the most positive thing? Was there any positive? Why didn't you graduate?

Anderson: Because I didn't perceive I could afford it. I must think of Grinnell as a positive experience. I'm here this weekend‚ and I'm even trying to figure out how I can come back. Though when I hear how much it costs I don't think I'll ever be able to afford to come back. When I was here a lady came back who'd been gone fifteen or twenty years to complete her degree.

Yeager: Do you know what her name was?

Anderson: I don't remember. And I really admired her courage to come back after all those years and complete her degree. And sometimes I think about her but I cannot remember her name.

Yeager: Did you just have one year at Grinnell?

Anderson: I had two years. I've gone to school in between. But I don't know that I have what it takes to come back to Grinnell. There are some very bright people at Grinnell and I think I've sort of gotten a little bit brain-damaged since I've been here. The cells die out.

Yeager: Did I ask you -- oh‚ I asked you who was the most influential person in your life at Grinnell.

Anderson: Yes. I cannot think. I guess the gym teacher‚ Miss Wack really. She's the person I remember fondly from that time.

Yeager: Can you tell me what you're doing right now? What have you done since Grinnell? When you left Grinnell you got married.

Anderson: And I had a daughter. Currently I'm working as a recreation supervisor in a mental health center for the state of Missouri. I'm also working as a field supervisor for a health care agency. It's a private delivery system. I'm enjoying being a single girl kind of stuff.

Yeager: You're no longer married?

Anderson: No. I'm divorced.

Yeager: And your daughter?

Anderson: My daughter is a junior at the Air Force Academy.

Yeager: How did you decide to go into that field of work?

Anderson: How did I?

Yeager: Yes.

Anderson: It just sort of happened. I was really going back to school at Washington University and needed a job to help pay for it and ended up in recreation and I've pretty much stayed there. I've taken courses in it and have been involved in it. And I've been there about seventeen years now.

Yeager: So you enjoy what you're doing?

Anderson: Yes. Hopefully I'll go back and put the recreation degree together which is another reason why I don't know if Grinnell would fit in.

Yeager: We used to have the physical education degree.

Anderson: But not phys. ed. I'm talking about therapy and recreation and there's a big difference.

Yeager: Well‚ thank you very much. Do you have anything else you want to add about Grinnell‚ your impressions‚ your experiences?

Artderson‚ Well it's really changed.:

Yeager: How has it changed?

Anderson: Well we walked around today. The campus seems more open‚ as far as‚ you know‚ spacious. And of course they have many new buildings. I was interested to notice my reaction to the train whistle because being in the girls' dorm on the far side of the campus the train pretty much ruled our lives as far as getting to class. And during lunch break we were walking around and we 'heard the train whistle and --- I was walking with Claramarie and we said‚ 'Time to get across the tracks.' It was sort of funny because it was an automatic reaction. I hadn't heard that train whistle in ages and it just I heard it. We were talking to one of the fellows and he didn't hear it. The train whistle really did govern what you did and how you did it and it comes back almost immediately. I was so amused that it would be that noticable and make us that aware. That's one of the things I wondered when I was coming back... Was the train still going through the center of campus?

Yeager: Why did that --- Did that bother you? Or did that fascinate you?

Anderson: No. That was one of the nice things about my Grinnell experience. We would talk about what's at your school and that was one of the things I could talk to my friends about. We have a train that goes through the center of campus.

Yeager: That was unique I guess.

Anderson: The train rides from home to Grinnell were always rather interesting. That would probably/one of the worst things that ever happened to me because in Moberly one spring break when we were going home was about the only time that I became aware of the fact that I was not like all the other Grinnell students in that they refused to serve me in the little restaurant there.

Yeager: Oh‚ really?

Anderson: But‚ it was not a traumatic thing. It had never happened before. And I was with my Grinnell friends and so nobody ate so big deal.

Yeager: Let me just ask you one more question. You were talking about the train and I was asking you whether that ---

Anderson: I guess it was a little bit uncomfortable for us but it happened and it was over. It didn't make a really lasting impression. It was one of those things that happened. I'm sure that worse things‚ many‚ many worse things happen to people.

Yeager: Oh‚ yes.

Anderson: So it didn't really shatter me or anything like that.

Yeager: You really didn't have that many earth-shattering experiences at school.

Anderson: I never have.

Yeager: Oh‚ you never have to this day. Well‚ thank you very much.